[sword-devel] LXX versification ?

Sun Mar 2 12:48:59 EST 2025

Thank you, DM, for these indications. I'm glad to discover that you're 
working on it, even if it's a bit behind the scenes.

Le 02/03/2025 à 18:32, DM Smith a écrit :
> BTW: By reconcile with JSword, I mean that JSword needs to be changed.
>
> DM
>
>> On Mar 2, 2025, at 9:51 AM, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org> wrote:
>>
>> Several items:
>> - Mapping versifications currently uses the KJV as an intermediate to 
>> map between v11ns. The intermediate should be a superset of all v11ns 
>> in terms of books, chapters and verse numbers. Troy has identified 
>> this and has a new intermediate in use in the SWORD Java code. This 
>> needs to be reconciled with the same notion and mechanism as in 
>> JSword. JSword’s implementation was done under the guidance of 
>> David-Instone Brewer as part of STEP Bible. As long as it remains a 
>> superset, it is allowed to be changed.
>>
>> - Since modules are created at a fixed point in time, the v11n that 
>> it uses from within the SWORD library needs to be immutable. It needs 
>> versioning (e.g. Catholic Catholic2) to allow for changes. This is 
>> true now.
>>
>> - There are many more v11n than SWORD has defined. A dynamic 
>> mechanism is needed to read a v11n from file that is shipped with the 
>> module. Troy in defining the new intermediate and having it work in 
>> the SWORD Java code has done this. It needs to be ported to SWORD 
>> C++. STEP Bible has independently started this with the JSword 
>> library, using JSON rather than the XML that Troy has used. These two 
>> implementations need to use the same file input format or have a 
>> conversion utility to convert from the one to the other.
>>
>> - Osis2mod needs to accept a -V flag to specify a v11n file so that 
>> it can build a module with an external v11n. STEP Bible has a bespoke 
>> version of osis2mod that uses the JSON file for input. This needs to 
>> be reworked to use the format that Troy has defined.
>>
>> - SWORD C++ needs minor modifications to support the reading of the 
>> format that Troy has defined so that osis2mod and delivered modules 
>> can workk. STEP Bible has as part of their bespoke osis2mod done that 
>> for JSON, but not for modules. The format needs to change to Troy’s 
>> and reading from a module needs to be done.
>>
>> - module.conf needs to change to give a path to the v11n file.
>>
>> - Arnaud, Michael, STEP Bible and others have wanted for out of order 
>> verse numbers, multiple verse numbers, … so that SWORD modules can 
>> match what is published. Basically decoupling presentation from 
>> implementation. Ideas have been presented. Arnaud’s idea is to have a 
>> presentation layer specified in addition to the current module. This 
>> would require changes to the usual suspects: SWORD lib, osis2mod, 
>> JSword. Since it would be additional module files and no changes to 
>> existing ones, it wouldn’t require frontends to be updated to use 
>> modules that use it. They would continue as is today, not matching 
>> the publication.
>>
>> In Him,
>> DM Smith
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 2, 2025, at 8:44 AM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Forwarding to sword-devel to elicit potential responses from the 
>>> wider community.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 09:30, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com 
>>> <mailto:On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 09:30, David Haslam <<a href=>> wrote:
>>>> Who can explain why the SWORD versification 
>>>> <https://wiki.crosswire.org/Alternate_Versification> *LXX* includes 
>>>> *I Enoch* ?
>>>>
>>>>   * It's not even mentioned as part of the LXX in the Wikipedia
>>>>     article <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint>!
>>>>   * The Book of Enoch <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch>
>>>>     is part of the *Ethiopian* canon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Admittedly, the Lexham English Septuagint 
>>>> <https://lexhampress.com/product/188040/the-lexham-english-septuagint-2nd-ed> 
>>>> does list *I Enoch* as one of the books.
>>>>
>>>>   * Does anyone have further details?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could it be a mistake that *I Enoch* was ever included in *LXX* 
>>>> from SWORD *1.7.2* onwards?
>>>>
>>>>   * If the answer is "yes", then please can this be rectified asap.
>>>>   * It seems an unwanted burden to have an large empty book in the
>>>>     various LXX modules that we host & support.
>>>>   * Then, once that's done, all the LXX modules built using
>>>>     *Versification=LXX* would need to be rebuilt and updated by
>>>>     *CrossWire*, as well as by *eBible.org* and *STEP Bible*.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> NB. As yet, there's no versification for the *Ethiopian* canon.
>>>>
>>>>   * As and when we are sent (or made aware of) a *TextSource* for
>>>>     such a Bible, it might be better to develop a proper
>>>>     versification called *Ethiopian* to cater for this requirement.
>>>>   * Then, for any subsequent Bible module that might include the
>>>>     *Book of Enoch*, it would have it's needed support.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
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