[sword-devel] LXX versification ?

[DM Smith]

BTW: By reconcile with JSword, I mean that JSword needs to be changed.

DM

> On Mar 2, 2025, at 9:51 AM, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org> wrote:
> 
> Several items:
> - Mapping versifications currently uses the KJV as an intermediate to map between v11ns. The intermediate should be a superset of all v11ns in terms of books, chapters and verse numbers. Troy has identified this and has a new intermediate in use in the SWORD Java code. This needs to be reconciled with the same notion and mechanism as in JSword. JSword’s implementation was done under the guidance of David-Instone Brewer as part of STEP Bible. As long as it remains a superset, it is allowed to be changed.
> 
> - Since modules are created at a fixed point in time, the v11n that it uses from within the SWORD library needs to be immutable. It needs versioning (e.g. Catholic Catholic2) to allow for changes. This is true now. 
> 
> - There are many more v11n than SWORD has defined. A dynamic mechanism is needed to read a v11n from file that is shipped with the module. Troy in defining the new intermediate and having it work in the SWORD Java code has done this. It needs to be ported to SWORD C++. STEP Bible has independently started this with the JSword library, using JSON rather than the XML that Troy has used. These two implementations need to use the same file input format or have a conversion utility to convert from the one to the other.
> 
> - Osis2mod needs to accept a -V flag to specify a v11n file so that it can build a module with an external v11n. STEP Bible has a bespoke version of osis2mod that uses the JSON file for input. This needs to be reworked to use the format that Troy has defined.
> 
> - SWORD C++ needs minor modifications to support the reading of the format that Troy has defined so that osis2mod and delivered modules can workk. STEP Bible has as part of their bespoke osis2mod done that for JSON, but not for modules. The format needs to change to Troy’s and reading from a module needs to be done.
> 
> - module.conf needs to change to give a path to the v11n file.
> 
> - Arnaud, Michael, STEP Bible and others have wanted for out of order verse numbers, multiple verse numbers, … so that SWORD modules can match what is published. Basically decoupling presentation from implementation. Ideas have been presented. Arnaud’s idea is to have a presentation layer specified in addition to the current module. This would require changes to the usual suspects: SWORD lib, osis2mod, JSword. Since it would be additional module files and no changes to existing ones, it wouldn’t require frontends to be updated to use modules that use it. They would continue as is today, not matching the publication.
> 
> In Him,
> 	DM Smith
> 
> 
>> On Mar 2, 2025, at 8:44 AM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Forwarding to sword-devel to elicit potential responses from the wider community.
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 09:30, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com <mailto:On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 09:30, David Haslam <<a href=>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Who can explain why the SWORD versification <https://wiki.crosswire.org/Alternate_Versification> LXX includes I Enoch ?
>>> It's not even mentioned as part of the LXX in the Wikipedia article <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint>!
>>> The Book of Enoch <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch> is part of the Ethiopian canon.
>>> 
>>> Admittedly, the Lexham English Septuagint <https://lexhampress.com/product/188040/the-lexham-english-septuagint-2nd-ed> does list I Enoch as one of the books. 
>>> Does anyone have further details?
>>> 
>>> Could it be a mistake that I Enoch was ever included in LXX from SWORD 1.7.2 onwards?
>>> If the answer is "yes", then please can this be rectified asap.
>>> It seems an unwanted burden to have an large empty book in the various LXX modules that we host & support.
>>> Then, once that's done, all the LXX modules built using Versification=LXX would need to be rebuilt and updated by CrossWire, as well as by eBible.org and STEP Bible.
>>> 
>>> NB. As yet, there's no versification for the  Ethiopian  canon. 
>>> As and when we are sent (or made aware of) a TextSource for such a Bible, it might be better to develop a proper versification called Ethiopian to cater for this requirement.
>>> Then, for any subsequent Bible module that might include the Book of Enoch, it would have it's needed support.
>>> 
>>> Best regards, 
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
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