[sword-devel] Correction for KJV module in 2 Corinthians 1:8

Mon Jan 16 11:23:30 EST 2023

Seriously, what practical use are you proposing to make of the transcribed WikiSource text?
It’s far from being fully proofread and validated, as only a cursory inspection readily indicates.

And yes - it remains the case that the text of the KJV is protected by Royal Letters Patent within the United Kingdom, and that in principle, this copyright assertion should be upheld by subsequent mutual treaties in those nations that were signatories of the Berne Convention.

I’ve even discussed this matter with a friend who has worked for many years in the Bible Society (formerly known as the British and Foreign Bible Society).

That digital versions of the KJV exist on numerous websites and through a large variety of Bible software applications doesn’t negate that.

David

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On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 15:49, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> I must admit that I am a little surprised by this speech. What is really protected by a copyright? The text of the KJV bible or the work done on this text? In our other conversation it didn't seem to me that it was Crosswire's contributions to the text that you were trying to protect? You mentioned the copyrights of the English crown...
> Thank you for clarifying this point. I don't know what you are talking about when you say: "It’s also a derived digital work - not the actual reference printed hard copy of the 1789 Oxford (Blayney) Edition", and about the facsimile of DM Smith. Wikisource text it the blayney edition. In any case if you are trying to protect the crosswire additions to the text my surprise is even greater and I agree perfectly with what Michael says.
>
> Br Cyrille
>
> PS: I would like to say that once again we are wasting our time to know what to protect instead of looking for solutions to be able to contribute effectively to solve the bugs related to the module.
>
> Le 16/01/2023 à 15:52, David Haslam a écrit :
>
>> Aside: The KJV at WikiSource would only be relevant if someone were wanting to create a text only KJV module. The CrossWire OSIS source text is a long way further down the road than plain text. There’s therefore no reason to keep mentioning it.
>>
>> It’s also a derived digital work - not the actual reference printed hard copy of the 1789 Oxford (Blayney) Edition.
>
>> At best it might be used to help locate any residual textual differences that might yet be undiscovered in our KJV module, but that would involve doing a comparison with the plain text that could be easily exported from our module, and then checking any such diff locations in the printed facsimile copy that DM Smith possesses.
>>
>> Nobody in their right mind is proposing to start with the one at WikiSource and insert all the feature rich OSIS XML markup that we already have in the existing source text.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 13:22, Fr Cyrille <fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 16/01/2023 à 14:01, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>
>>>> A copy of this reply is sentbcc: to DM Smith's personal icloud address.
>>>>
>>>> Dear Fr Cyrille,
>>>>
>>>> gitlab.com is simply the wrong place to host our KJV source text!
>>>>
>>>> If necessary, it should be hosted in-house under git.crosswire.org such that only CrossWire volunteers have access.
>>>>
>>>> Important: The KJV module is an exception to our usual practice of taking source text from a publicly accessible website or third party supplier. It was always specially developed in-house from the early days of CrossWire. Much of its development history is documented in the developer wiki at https://wiki.crosswire.org/CrossWire_KJV and related pages.
>>>>
>>>> CrossWire volunteer DM Smith has long been the prime mover in this process.
>>>> AFAIK, he still carries the main responsibility for future KJV module releases.
>>>>
>>>> NB. The related KJVA module should be maintained in parallel with any changes envisaged for the KJV module. ie. Special provision was made in 2014 to use two iterations of osis2mod such that the Deuterocanonicalbooks were appended to the Protocanonical books using the -a option in the second command line. This implies that the process needs to be an exception to a semiautomatic module build script that DomCox now uses for OSIS modules. I helped DM in the run up to when version 2.10 was released. At that time, we had not been making use of any git type environment to keep track of changes for either the KJV or KJVA module.
>>>>
>>>> Aside: The emergency release of KJV version 2.10.2 was an exception to the previous process. This was an ad hoc action that Troy deemed necessary because of the nature of the issue being fixed.
>>>>
>>>> I could add further observations, but this will need to suffice for now.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>> Thank you David do put this information on the list so that everyone can understand the problem. Personally I don't agree with this restrictive view of KJV treatment but I had submitted to your decision. Because I don't bring the same importance to this very particular copyright claimed by the British Crown. The presence of KJV on wikisource is a proof of this.
>>> However, what I see is that we are still at square one, i.e. nobody can do anything to improve the module. That's why I gave up, it's this report of a new error that revives the discussion.
>>> For me if we don't give the tools to the Crosswire community to improve the module it's just doomed to stay as it is with its errors.
>>> We could put the text on the right git, it would still be necessary that you allow other users to work on your text, and that the modification made in the emergency by Troy is validated in the current version before making other corrections. The corrections are extremely simple almost anyone can do it. The facsimile is on wikisource.
>>> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:KJV_1769_Oxford_Edition,_vol._1.djvu
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Br Cyrille
>>>
>>>> Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.
>>>>
>>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>> On Monday, January 16th, 2023 at 11:51 AM, Fr Cyrille [<fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be>](mailto:fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 16/01/2023 à 11:27, Fr Cyrille a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 12/01/2023 à 21:44, Matěj Cepl a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-01-12, 18:57 GMT, Fr Cyrille wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, the work on KJV is currently at a standstill, and bugs
>>>>>>>> are piling up on the tracker. I wanted to offer my help but I didn't get
>>>>>>>> any answer. This is a problem that should be treated seriously,
>>>>>>>> considering the importance of the KJV.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, it would probably help if
>>>>>>> https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society/kjv/
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>> contained sources.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried to do this, but since some people say there are copyrights issues on the KJV, although the full text is on wikisource which has a very strict copyrights enforcement policy, I gave up the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> My attempt: https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society/kjv
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matěj
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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