[sword-devel] Names, proper and geographic

Tue Dec 19 12:54:52 MST 2017

The \addpn was pre-nested tags... it provided both dotted underline and
italicized text (or in CJK the appropriate alternate font) to indicate a
proper name that is not in the original text. nested tags make this
redundundant.

I would suggest the underline as the proper way to mark the names. It has
precedent in English for use as titles and proper names when italics are
unavailable or already used to indicate something else. Most rendering
systems have the ability to manage underlines independently of color and
font. This will make developers lives much easier, and provide more
intuitive reading.

Bold, on the other hand has to be managed on many systems as a separate
font. This turns into complex management of information when bold / italics
/ (sm)allcaps etc. are required.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:12 PM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:

> My intention in marking up the names (whether persons or geographic) in
> the DC books for the *KJVA* module
> is such that *SWORD* and *JSword* developers have something to test
> should they like the idea.
>
> I'd like to see front-ends such as *Xiphos* and *PocketSword* include a
> UI options to toggle how such names are displayed.
>
> The simplest way for other than *Far East Asian* scripts (such as
> Chinese, Korean, Japanese) would be to show marked names in *bold* when
> the option is selected.
> For all fonts that include a bold typeface, this would be ideal in the
> sense that it would not interfere with the existing feature to display the *Words
> of Christ* in red.
>
> *USFM 3.0* now supports *\png_...\png** as well as *\pn_...\pn**
> The former is intended for *geographic* names, the latter is for
> *non-geographic* names (which for the most part are *persons* or *person
> groups*).
> It should be recognised that there are several *further classes* of names
> in the Bible and related literature than merely these two broad sweep
> categories.
>
> In OSIS, the *name* element can clearly have *type* and *subType*
> attributes as these are allowed for all XML elements.
> It would make sense that for a name with *type="person"* a further
> attribute should be *sex* with "male" or "female" as the expected values.
> There are lots more ideas that I've begun to put down in my notes.
>
> btw. In case your weren't aware, *CrossWire* has its own *CR* edition of
> the *OSIS 2.1.1* schema.
> This is maintained by *DM Smith* and can be downloaded via the link in
> the relevant page in our wiki.
>
> I've also communicated some of my suggestions to *Jeff Klassen* at ICAP,
> so I hope these will be well considered for *USFM 3.1* or later.
>
> As of USFM 3.0, the *undocumented* markers *\addpn_...\addpn** are now
> *deprecated.*
> I understand that this marker pair was originally introduced to provide *dotted
> underline* in *Unified CJK* characters.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Names, proper and geographic
> Local Time: 19 December 2017 6:02 PM
> UTC Time: 19 December 2017 18:02
> From: cmahte at gmail.com
> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>
> In USFM, the proper name marker [ \pn ] is a feature in East asian
> Languages (Chinese), proper names are typographically marked (dotted
> underlines most frequently) to aid the reader recognizing those glyphs.
>
> That's the original use, and the intent of it's presence in OSIS. There
> might be others. The point is, it was originally intended as a visible
> marker, not metadata.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Tom Sullivan <info at beforgiven.info>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter:
>>
>> To my mind, the simpler the better. I would not actually use the OSIS
>> markup for name. There is a potential compatibility problem with different
>> software. I think it would be best if one were to simply right-click on a
>> word, and the user would see what, if any, resources were available for it.
>> Such would be a more generalized solution.
>>
>> For what it is worth.
>>
>> Tom Sullivan
>> info at BeForgiven.INFO
>> FAX: 815-301-2835
>> ---------------------
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>> Jesus Christ became Man, was crucified, buried and rose from the dead
>> as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
>> If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
>> you will go to Heaven. Otherwise you will go to Hell.
>> Warning! Good works are a result, not cause, of saving trust.
>> More info is at www.esig.beforgiven.info
>> Do you believe this? Copy this signature into your email program
>> and use the Internet to spread the Great News every time you email.
>>
>>
>> On 12/03/2017 05:49 PM,refdoc at gmx.net wrote:
>>
>>> OSIS offers to mark these up. There are databases and there are public
>>> domain texts on which one can experiment.
>>>
>>> What functionality would be a reasonable expectation associated with a
>>> marked up name? Potentially different presentation style, a dictionary link
>>> maybe? Something else?
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
>>> autocorrects.
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