[sword-devel] Names, proper and geographic

David Haslam dfhdfh at protonmail.com
Wed Dec 20 08:09:04 MST 2017

Underline all words marked with the OSIS name element then.

Please build that into SWORD and JSword ASAP.

Agree on the conf key so that front-end developers can begin to provide UI support.

Further functionality could be provided by means of mouseover tooltips to display type, subType, sex, etc.

I'm sure there are other ways for touch screen devices to provide something similar.

Best regards


Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 19:54, Michael H <cmahte at gmail.com> wrote:

> The addpn was pre-nested tags... it provided both dotted underline and italicized text (or in CJK the appropriate alternate font) to indicate a proper name that is not in the original text. nested tags make this redundundant.
> I would suggest the underline as the proper way to mark the names. It has precedent in English for use as titles and proper names when italics are unavailable or already used to indicate something else. Most rendering systems have the ability to manage underlines independently of color and font. This will make developers lives much easier, and provide more intuitive reading.
> Bold, on the other hand has to be managed on many systems as a separate font. This turns into complex management of information when bold / italics / (sm)allcaps etc. are required.
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:12 PM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>> My intention in marking up the names (whether persons or geographic) in the DC books for the KJVA module
>> is such that SWORD and JSword developers have something to test should they like the idea.
>> I'd like to see front-ends such as Xiphos and PocketSword include a UI options to toggle how such names are displayed.
>> The simplest way for other than Far East Asian scripts (such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese) would be to show marked names in bold when the option is selected.
>> For all fonts that include a bold typeface, this would be ideal in the sense that it would not interfere with the existing feature to display the Words of Christ in red.
>> USFM 3.0 now supports png_...png* as well as pn_...pn*
>> The former is intended for geographic names, the latter is for non-geographic names (which for the most part are persons or person groups).
>> It should be recognised that there are several further classes of names in the Bible and related literature than merely these two broad sweep categories.
>> In OSIS, the name element can clearly have type and subType attributes as these are allowed for all XML elements.
>> It would make sense that for a name with type="person" a further attribute should be sex with "male" or "female" as the expected values.
>> There are lots more ideas that I've begun to put down in my notes.
>> btw. In case your weren't aware, CrossWire has its own CR edition of the OSIS 2.1.1 schema.
>> This is maintained by DM Smith and can be downloaded via the link in the relevant page in our wiki.
>> I've also communicated some of my suggestions to Jeff Klassen at ICAP, so I hope these will be well considered for USFM 3.1 or later.
>> As of USFM 3.0, the undocumented markers addpn_...addpn* are now deprecated.
>> I understand that this marker pair was originally introduced to provide dotted underline in Unified CJK characters.
>> Best regards,
>> David
>> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Names, proper and geographic
>>> Local Time: 19 December 2017 6:02 PM
>>> UTC Time: 19 December 2017 18:02
>>> From: cmahte at gmail.com
>>> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>>> In USFM, the proper name marker [ pn ] is a feature in East asian Languages (Chinese), proper names are typographically marked (dotted underlines most frequently) to aid the reader recognizing those glyphs.
>>> That's the original use, and the intent of it's presence in OSIS. There might be others. The point is, it was originally intended as a visible marker, not metadata.
>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Tom Sullivan <info at beforgiven.info> wrote:
>>>> Peter:
>>>> To my mind, the simpler the better. I would not actually use the OSIS markup for name. There is a potential compatibility problem with different software. I think it would be best if one were to simply right-click on a word, and the user would see what, if any, resources were available for it. Such would be a more generalized solution.
>>>> For what it is worth.
>>>> Tom Sullivan
>>>> info at BeForgiven.INFO
>>>> FAX: [815-301-2835](tel:815-301-2835)
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>>>> On 12/03/2017 05:49 PM,refdoc at gmx.net wrote:
>>>>> OSIS offers to mark these up. There are databases and there are public domain texts on which one can experiment.
>>>>> What functionality would be a reasonable expectation associated with a marked up name? Potentially different presentation style, a dictionary link maybe? Something else?
>>>>> Peter
>>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird autocorrects.
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