[sword-devel] Other Bible versions

Mon Jun 28 17:28:04 MST 2004

I am not taking a side as to what e-sword may or may not do with regards to
its licensing of Bible texts. To be fair to e-sword though, the website is
very clear on the "for purchase" modules as in this example
(http://www.e-sword.net/nasb.html) and others, as well as, those
translations that have not been granted permission. 

>Thats interesting to hear. I'm not sure that E-sword are doing things in
>the most honest of ways, as I have downloaded a number of their bibles, and
>none of them seem to come with an associated software license. I would have
>assumed that even if the actual text is distributed for free, they would be
>required to put in the file that says "Less than 500 verses, as long as its
>not a whole book etc etc etc."

With reference to license verbiage, this is the exact content of the license
for the CEV from the application (note - each version or module can get the
associated license from within the application by selecting the version and
going to "Bible" in the menu bar and then "Information":

"Scriptures marked as "(CEV)" are taken from the Contemporary English
Version (c) 1995 by American Bible Society.  Used by permission.

The text of the Contemporary English Version (CEV) appearing on or deriving
from this application is for personal use only.  Any other use of the CEV
must be in conformity with the Quotation Policy for the Contemporary English
Version.  For more information about the Contemporary English Version, the
Quotation Policy and for inquiries about permission to use the Contemporary
English Version, go to www.americanbible.org"

Here is the NASB License from within the application:

"NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE
Copyright (C) 1960,1962,1963,1968,1971,1972,1973,1975,1977,1995 by
THE LOCKMAN FOUNDATION
A Corporation Not for Profit
LA HABRA, CA
All Rights Reserved
http://www.lockman.org

The "NASB," "NAS," "New American Standard Bible," and "New American
Standard" trademarks are registered in the United States Patent and
Trademark Office by The Lockman Foundation.  Use of these trademarks
requires the permission of The Lockman Foundation.

PERMISSION TO QUOTE

The text of the New American Standard Bible(R) may be quoted and/or
reprinted up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses without express
written permission of The Lockman Foundation, providing the verses do not
amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for
more than 25% of the total work in which they are quoted.

Notice of copyright must appear on the title or copyright page of the work
as follows:

"Scripture taken from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE(R), Copyright (C)
1960,1962,1963,1968,1971,1972,1973,1975,1977,1995 by The Lockman Foundation.
Used by permission."

When quotations from the NASB(R) text are used in not-for-sale media, such
as church bulletins, orders of service, posters, transparencies or similar
media, the abbreviation (NASB) may be used at the end of the quotation.

This permission to quote is limited to material which is wholly manufactured
in compliance with the provisions of the copyright laws of the United States
of America.  The Lockman Foundation may terminate this permission at any
time.

Quotations and/or reprints in excess of the above limitations, or other
permission requests, must be directed to and approved in writing by The
Lockman Foundation, PO Box 2279, La Habra, CA 90632-2279 (714)879-3055.
http://www.lockman.org

EXPLANATION OF GENERAL FORMAT

QUOTATION MARKS are used in the text in accordance with modern English
usage.

"THOU," "THEE" AND "THY" are not used in this edition and have been rendered
as "YOU" and "YOUR."

PERSONAL PRONOUNS are capitalized when pertaining to Deity.

ITALICS are used in the text to indicate words which are not found in the
original Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek but implied by it.

ALL CAPS in the New Testament are used in the text to indicate Old Testament
quotations or obvious references to Old Testament texts.  Variations of Old
Testament wording are found in New Testament citations depending on whether
the New Testament writer translated from a Hebrew text, used existing Greek
or Aramaic translations, or paraphrased the material.  It should be noted
that modern rules for the indication of direct quotation were not used in
biblical times; thus, the ancient writer would use exact quotations or
references to quotation without specific indication of such.

ASTERISKS are used to mark verbs that are historical presents in the Greek
which have been translated with an English past tense in order to conform to
modern usage.  The translators recognized that in some contexts the present
tense seems more unexpected and unjustified to the English reader than a
past tense would have been.  But Greek authors frequently used the present
tense for the sake of heightened vividness, thereby transporting their
readers in imagination to the actual scene at the time of occurrence.
However, the translators felt that it would be wise to change these
historical presents to English past tenses."

>I emailed another software developer called Online Bible, to ask about 
>alternative versions, and the second I mentioned E-Sword I got firmly
>knocked back because (quote) "We have great reservation with anything
>associated with e-sword. They took our copyright materials for their CD
>without permission." I'll try and press things further.

Is this everything that needs to be in there? I do not know, but I do not
think that making suggestive remarks about someone's intent without that
person involved in the conversation is appropriate. In fact, the Bible
directs us to do otherwise. If e-sword has done something wrong with another
provider, then e-sword needs to make a mends, but I do not think that this
is the forum to create or propagate potential rumors. In fact, has anyone
contacted e-sword to find out how he was able to obtain the permission?

Maybe working in cooperation with one another might help obtain some of the
harder to get translations, so those companies can see the bigger picture or
market as it were...

Lester Nichols 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Gray [mailto:richard at bluesheep.me.uk] 
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 4:45 PM
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Other Bible versions

> 
> We're kind of clueless about how e-Sword got permission to distribute the 
> TEV or CEV for free, and so are our contacts at ABS.  But, in fairness, 
> the people we know at ABS aren't the rights people.  Let us know if you 
> hear anything useful in reply.
>  

Thats interesting to hear. I'm not sure that E-sword are doing things in the

most honest of ways, as I have downloaded a number of their bibles, and none
of 
them seem to come with an associated software license. I would have assumed
that 
even if the actual text is distributed for free, they would be required to
put 
in the file that says "Less than 500 verses, as long as its not a whole book
etc 
etc etc."

I emailed another software developer called Online Bible, to ask about 
alternative versions, and the second I mentioned E-Sword I got firmly
knocked 
back because (quote) "We have great reservation with anything associated
with 
e-sword. They took our copyright materials for their CD without permission."

I'll try and press things further.

As a Brit, its hard for me to get in touch with anyone in the ABS, however I
do 
have the ear of the current chairman for the Scottish Bible Society. Is he 
likely to be of any use? I presume the associated licenses are held by the
IBS 
as opposed to the ABS?

I had a look at the ToDo list. I'm primarily a Java developer, but the
JSword 
wiki doesn't appear to have changed since 2002. Is it dead in the water? If
so, 
I can turn my hand to other programming languages, but if JSword is still
alive 
(or even sinking, but still moving) then I'd sign up for that :)

R

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