[sword-devel] UI for Windows Question...
Chris
sword-devel@crosswire.org
Thu, 13 Mar 2003 02:02:05 +1100
Well I had a little Java swing program, about 5kb .jar file. And when I
asked it to, JBuilder7 converted it into a .exe of about 70kb, that
didn't appear to require the JRE. How it works I don't know, but it
seems to work. There's also the option of Linux and Sun/Sparc native
executeables.
Costas I. Stergiou wrote:
>Hi Chris,
>I don't think JBuilder can produce executables (native). Actually,
>no java app can be converted to an executable unless the executable
>contains the whole JRE within. I am also using JBuilder from version 2
>and I would agree that it's interface is quite good but still lacks
>the native L&F. On the other hand, JBuilder is really faster than
>other Java apps, an to be honest I have always wondered what Borland
>has hacked into to make this happen, but I am sure that the code
>that is produces is pure java classes with the usual behaviour.
>
>What I said is just an opinion though and a personal choice from
>my experience until now. Remember, I am primary a Java programmer (I
>have JBuidler in me screen as I write this e-mail, I am at work now)
>but I still believe that java is (unfortunately) not the way to go for a
>windows GUI.
>
>I am really new to this list/project so my opinion should not be
>considered highly. I am happy though to participate in this conversation.
>Thanks,
>Costas
>
>On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Chris wrote:
>
>
>
>>I personally would sacrifice windows L&F for the cross-platform ability.
>>Plus, JBuilder can produce native executables. I havn't tried
>>benchmarking them,
>>but I presume the JBuilder environment itself uses it, and it is very
>>snappy.
>>
>>Costas I. Stergiou wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Actually, my full time job is java dev and it is really my
>>>favorite language for many reasons.
>>>Well, the reason I would
>>>not suggest java is because it is slow in the GUI, and does not provide
>>>a real windows look and feel. All the Java GUI programs I have used are
>>>indeed a bit slow and out of the windows feel. Also the JVM is not
>>>standard within windows. It would have been much easier for me to
>>>do my own work in Java (and I would have done in half the time propably)
>>>but I think that every language is good at some stuff and windows GUI
>>>is not what Java is for. I think that if you compare a native win GUI
>>>with any Java GUI (look, responsiveness, etc) you will agree that the
>>>diferrences are quite noteable.
>>>
>>>Costas
>>>
>>>On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Costas I. Stergiou wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Some months ago I started on a software for personal use that would
>>>>>help in bible study. Since my best knowledge is in Java (5 years now)
>>>>>I started the implementation with it. Very soon I realized the (obvious)
>>>>>fact that Java is NOT for the Desktop.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Why? My full time job is writing Java desktop (gui) software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I thought of VB (where I also have
>>>>>experience) but I quickly dropped the idea since the code it
>>>>>produces is really slow. I ended up with Delphi (since it is really
>>>>>easier than C++) and now i have made a first version of a windows
>>>>>software for bible study. One of the reasons I didn't go with some
>>>>>of the already existing software is because none of these are quite
>>>>>good at searching/handling greek text (I am Greek) and none of these
>>>>>had a modern Greek translation which is the one most commonly used
>>>>>here in Greece. Also personal notes was really important and no sw
>>>>>gave real significance to that issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am married with one child, and my responsibilities leave my with
>>>>>few time to work on this project. I would be really happy though if
>>>>>I could help anyhow with this idea. I have recently put up a site
>>>>>with the software which (unfortunately?) is in greek, though I have
>>>>>made an english version of the software. If anyone would like to
>>>>>check it out here is the link for the english version of the
>>>>>software: http://www.theword.gr/bin/theword-en-0.99-full.exe
>>>>>
>>>>>I would be really happy if I could help out here in any way, either by
>>>>>giving the code, some ideas on the platform or anything else I
>>>>>could help with. I could also give some ideas about the Java platform
>>>>>since it is my everyday work for years now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Costas
>>>>>(once more, excuse me for my bad english)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Chris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Jason Turner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Personally I'd rather see a Java version than .NET.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, to get to my point, I was considering writing a new UI in .NET. However,
>>>>>>>.NET cannot utilize native C++ libraries. It can use Managed C++, C#, ActiveX
>>>>>>>DLL's and native C libraries. Since I cannot use the Sword API as it stands,
>>>>>>>I was considering reimplementing a subset of it in .NET, and then building
>>>>>>>the UI on top of that. Of course releasing the whole thing under the GPL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, I'm looking for comments. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Is there
>>>>>>>anything that I have missed? Should I take a closer look at Diatheke or
>>>>>>>ActiveDiatheke? Is someone else already working on a new Windows client?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jason Turner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Monday 10 March 2003 09:27 pm, David Trotz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No the windows version does not allow this. Certain versions of the bible
>>>>>>>>will automatically break the paragraph into seperate lines per verse, but
>>>>>>>>other than that the answer is no. Sorry. It may be added someday. David
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: Christopher Frazier
>>>>>>>>To: sword-devel@crosswire.org
>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:52 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: [sword-devel] UI for Windows Question...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've been looking everywhere for this, and since I haven't found the
>>>>>>>>archive to the lists, I guess I have to ask it here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>How do you view the Bible text one verse per line in Sword for
>>>>>>>>Windows?!? BibleTime does this in an obvious way, but I cannot figure
>>>>>>>>this out at all in Windows. Does the program do this at all?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>TIA!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Chris
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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