[sword-devel] Re: Radically simpler Bible software: more feasible to internationalize (looking for volunteers)

Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:36:38 +1000

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At 03:36 11-12-03, Lynn Allan wrote:
>Something that hadn't occurred to me, but seems to be a point in favor of
>radically simpler Bible software: It should be more feasible to
>internationalize.

Even complex software is feasible to internationalize... but it is easier when that is a design goal from the beginning. Internationalization really messes with your screen real estate design, among other things. Translations are not generally the same length. For example, "search phrase" in English becomes "painim dispela tok" in Melanesian Pidgin.

>I've exchanged eMails with the Rev. Michael Paul Johnson, the translator
>(author?) of the WEB (World English Bible).

Author? I think not. <grin> Many people have contributed to the World English Bible project-- so many that I have literally lost track of their names. I'm the guy to contact with typo reports and suggestions, though.

> In other writing, he has
>stressed something I found interesting. He is burdened by the lack of Bibles
>for non-English speaking people groups.

That would explain my presence in Papua New Guinea, helping with Bible translation projects, here. :-)

> God in His providence has blessed us
>in the English speaking nations with a rich choice of excellent Bibles
>(including the WEB ... thanks mpj :-).

You are welcome. To God be the glory!

>I believe Troy G pointed out that the Bible is so powerful that even a
>relatively inadequate translation can penetrate the heart of a person whom
>the Holy Spirit is working on. (Or someone else on this list, or maybe mpj,
>but it has the wisdom of something that our very own, much appreciated Troy
>G. would point out.)

Lots of people have probably said words to that effect. You see, God watches over His Word to perform it. I have been reading the Tok Pisin Bible, lately, and noticed a few things that would probably make the same people who complain about the KJV or NIV have royal fits. Nevertheless, I keep reading it, teaching from it, and preaching from it in PNG because it is usually better than I can translate on-the-fly, and because it is in a language that reaches to the heart of the people I am talking to.

>Back to the point about facilitating internationalization: As the LcdBible
>now stands, it would be nearly trivial to internationalize. There are 27
>books of the New Testament, and the words "Search Phrase". That's it. 29 wor
>ds. Probably 15 minutes with Google?

Don't forget the minority languages-- thousands of them. Right now, computer availability is pretty limited for lots of those groups, but this is changing.

>All I need is:
>Search Phrase = ???
>Matthew = ???
>Mark = ???
>Luke = ???
>John = ???
>etc.

Ideally, internationalization should be something someone can do with a simple text editor. PGP is an early example of that process, where all UI strings were run through a lookup process that found the translation of an English string in a table of translations to the selected language. If the translation wasn't found, English "leaked" out.

Things to consider: translate whole sentences, not parts of sentences, because word order changes and that might not work in all languages. Make extra room in the UI real estate (2-3 times as much). Try to use Unicode as much as practical. Consider using SIL Graphite (or in the Microsoft world, maybe Uniscribe) to render text.

I appreciate you guys and the work you do. May God bless you all!

Rev. Michael Paul Johnson
mpj@eBible.org
http://eBible.org/mpj/

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At 03:36 11-12-03, Lynn Allan wrote: 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Something that hadn't occurred to
me, but seems to be a point in favor of 
radically simpler Bible software: It should be more feasible to 
internationalize.</blockquote> 
Even complex software is feasible to internationalize... but it is easier
when that is a design goal from the beginning. Internationalization
really messes with your screen real estate design, among other things.
Translations are not generally the same length. For example, &quot;search
phrase&quot; in English becomes &quot;painim dispela tok&quot; in
Melanesian Pidgin. 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I've exchanged eMails
with the Rev. Michael Paul Johnson, the translator 
(author?) of the WEB (World English Bible).</blockquote> 
Author? I think not. &lt;grin&gt; Many people have contributed to the
World English Bible project-- so many that I have literally lost track of
their names. I'm the guy to contact with typo reports and suggestions,
though. 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>&nbsp;In other
writing, he has 
stressed something I found interesting. He is burdened by the lack of
Bibles 
for non-English speaking people groups.</blockquote> 
That would explain my presence in Papua New Guinea, helping with Bible
translation projects, here. :-) 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>&nbsp;God in His
providence has blessed us 
in the English speaking nations with a rich choice of excellent
Bibles 
(including the WEB ... thanks mpj :-).</blockquote> 
You are welcome. To God be the glory! 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I believe Troy G
pointed out that the Bible is so powerful that even a 
relatively inadequate translation can penetrate the heart of a person
whom 
the Holy Spirit is working on. (Or someone else on this list, or maybe
mpj, 
but it has the wisdom of something that our very own, much appreciated
Troy 
G. would point out.)</blockquote> 
Lots of people have probably said words to that effect. You see, God
watches over His Word to perform it. I have been reading the Tok Pisin
Bible, lately, and noticed a few things that would probably make the same
people who complain about the KJV or NIV have royal fits. Nevertheless, I
keep reading it, teaching from it, and preaching from it in PNG because
it is usually better than I can translate on-the-fly, and because it is
in a language that reaches to the heart of the people I am talking
to. 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Back to the point
about facilitating internationalization: As the LcdBible 
now stands, it would be nearly trivial to internationalize. There are
27 
books of the New Testament, and the words &quot;Search Phrase&quot;.
That's it. 29 wor 
ds. Probably 15 minutes with Google?</blockquote> 
Don't forget the minority languages-- thousands of them. Right now,
computer availability is pretty limited for lots of those groups, but
this is changing. 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>All I need is: 
Search Phrase = ??? 
Matthew = ??? 
Mark = ??? 
Luke = ??? 
John = ??? 
etc.</blockquote> 
Ideally, internationalization should be something someone can do with a
simple text editor. PGP is an early example of that process, where all UI
strings were run through a lookup process that found the translation of
an English string in a table of translations to the selected language. If
the translation wasn't found, English &quot;leaked&quot; out. 
Things to consider: translate whole sentences, not parts of sentences,
because word order changes and that might not work in all languages. Make
extra room in the UI real estate (2-3 times as much). Try to use Unicode
as much as practical. Consider using SIL Graphite (or in the Microsoft
world, maybe Uniscribe) to render text. 
I appreciate you guys and the work you do. May God bless you
all! 
 
<x-sigsep></x-sigsep>
Rev. Michael Paul Johnson 
mpj@eBible.org 
<a href="http://ebible.org/mpj/" eudora="autourl">http://eBible.org/mpj/ 
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