[jsword-devel] jsword-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 7
Yiguang Hu
yighu at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 4 11:35:22 MST 2009
NetBean follows new development such as plugin quite well. Both Netbean and Eclipse need some good memory to work fast enough to respond your typing.
IntelliJ needs less memory than Netbean and update support for new plugins quite well. It even has Scala plugin now.
Yiguang
--- On Wed, 3/4/09, jsword-devel-request at crosswire.org <jsword-devel-request at crosswire.org> wrote:
> From: jsword-devel-request at crosswire.org <jsword-devel-request at crosswire.org>
> Subject: jsword-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 7
> To: jsword-devel at crosswire.org
> Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 12:31 PM
> Send jsword-devel mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Radical Presentation (Yiguang Hu)
> 2. Re: Flexible layout (Daniel Owens)
> 3. Re: Flexible layout (Tonny Kohar)
> 4. Java IDE (Troy A. Griffitts)
> 5. Re: Java IDE (Brian Fernandes)
> 6. Re: Java IDE (Manfred Bergmann)
> 7. Re: Java IDE (David Botterill)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 13:45:47 -0800 (PST)
> From: Yiguang Hu <yighu at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [jsword-devel] Radical Presentation
> To: jsword-devel at crosswire.org
> Message-ID:
> <154613.37869.qm at web36103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> Joe said:
> "We could potentialy do something interesting by
> changing the rendering from
> HTML to Java2D, or even JavaFX. That way we could overcome
> the limitation of
> scrollbars and a pre-populated text box. By only rendering
> the text of the
> screen, we could have whole Bible scrolling that was way
> faster than the
> current rendering.
>
> Anyway, that was all a bit radical."
>
> I heard people mention grails group doing things like this.
> When it is ready, Similar to grails prod war/grails test
> war, there would be something like:
>
> grails desktop jar
> or
> grails web war
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 07:55:54 +0700
> From: Daniel Owens <dhowens at pmbx.net>
> Subject: Re: [jsword-devel] Flexible layout
> To: J-Sword Developers Mailing List
> <jsword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Message-ID: <49ADD19A.10006 at pmbx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> DM Smith wrote:
> > There are a bunch of SWORD/JSword applications. Until
> very recently,
> > The SWORD Project for Windows and Bible Desktop (BD)
> were the only
> > ones available for Windows. Mac OS had BD and
> MacSword. On Linux,
> > there was BibleTime, GnomeSword (now renamed Xiphos)
> and BD. (This is
> > not to minimize AlKitab as it like BD runs on the same
> platforms.)
> >
> > This is changing. Xiphos now runs on Windows. Soon
> BibleTime will run
> > on Windows and Macs.
> >
> > In discussions on the sword-devel mailing list, we
> have noted that
> > these apps do pretty much the same thing, with some
> significant
> > feature differences. No one app has run away with the
> prize. There are
> > a variety of reasons, but I think the most common
> reason is that a
> > user's favorite app works the way that they want
> to approach scripture
> > reading and/or study.
> >
> > The current layout of BD assumes that the primary use
> is that of
> > reading the Bible. Our goal for Bible Desktop is to
> have a simple,
> > uncluttered interface, where the user can
> show/hide/adapt it to suit
> > their desires. This is not quite full reality. We
> have had requests
> > to show/hide the right hand panel and to show/hide the
> built-in daily
> > reading plan.
> >
> > We have also had requests to make it a premier study
> tool complete
> > with deep linguistic analysis.
> >
> I have spoken up in favor of this, but I think what is
> below is more
> important.
> > I think to make BD the killer application, we need to
> address both of
> > these ends of the spectrum.
> >
> > Here is where my head is at regarding this:
> > 1) The user should be able to show/hide components of
> BD.
> > 2) The user should be able to organize those
> components as they see
> > fit: side-by-side, tabbed, separate windows, ....
> > 3) They shouldn't have to do it each time they
> start the application.
> >
> Yes. These are good priorities. Linguistic analysis is not
> a strength of
> SWORD in general yet, but once the gui itself reaches the
> above goals I
> would love to see complex linguistic searches possible.
> > Today, for the Bible view, you either get a Multiple
> Document
> > Interface, aka MDI or a Tabbed Document Interface,
> TDI. I don't like
> > that dichotomy. And there is no Separate Document
> Interface, SDI,
> > where each BibleView gets its own top-level window.
> Sometimes I want
> > the tabs, but other times I want to see two tabs (out
> of several
> > more), side-by-side. There are times that I'd like
> to tear off a tab
> > and make it a separate standalone window. (And I
> imagine, I might want
> > to put it back.)
> >
> > The other thing is the notion of plugins. The idea
> here is that a
> > plugin would be independent from the main application
> and could be
> > added/removed and shown/hidden at will. Once added and
> shown, it could
> > be place as above. This probably will satisfy 1).
> >
> > It was noted that the NetBeans and Eclipse look and
> feel get in the
> > way. Largely, I agree. But, they provide these
> capabilities for free.
> >
> > This and solving the rendering problems that Peter
> noted are the two
> > strategic implementations I have for a 2.0 release.
> >
> > I'd like feedback.
> >
> > In Him,
> > DM
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jsword-devel mailing list
> > jsword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/jsword-devel
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:23:48 +0700
> From: Tonny Kohar <tonny.kohar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [jsword-devel] Flexible layout
> To: J-Sword Developers Mailing List
> <jsword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Message-ID:
> <f75892d60903031923h2dfdeefbn7dc13922eb4dcc0c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi,
>
> > The other thing is the notion of plugins. The idea
> here is that a plugin
> > would be independent from the main application and
> could be added/removed
> > and shown/hidden at will. Once added and shown, it
> could be place as above.
> > This probably will satisfy 1).
> >
> > It was noted that the NetBeans and Eclipse look and
> feel get in the way.
> > Largely, I agree. But, they provide these capabilities
> for free.
> >
>
> If you have problem with Netbeans/Eclipse/etc due it is
> heavy, look
> and feel, or some other reason. I hear good things about
> pico
> container, it is lightweight and easy to use. The only
> drawback, pico
> container is only do plugins stuff. You still need to
> create or use
> other library for windowing/docking, etc
>
> Cheers
> Tonny Kohar
> --
> Alkitab Bible Study
> imagine, design, create ...
> http://www.kiyut.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:00:46 +0000
> From: "Troy A. Griffitts"
> <scribe at crosswire.org>
> Subject: [jsword-devel] Java IDE
> To: JSword Developers' Forum
> <jsword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Message-ID: <49AEA5AE.7060507 at crosswire.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> Sorry for this slightly off-topic email, but since JBuilder
> folded I've
> been lost.
>
> I have tried and tried and TRIED to like Eclipse, but after
> years of
> trying, I'm giving up. My conclusion is that Eclipse
> barely functions
> when I finally get all the disparate pieces and tools
> updated and
> configured how they're supposed to be. It's sad.
> It's a great concept,
> but in practice, it does not compare to a commercial tool
> integrated and
> packaged by a single organization-- which I fear is the
> same for our
> software sometimes.
>
> But anyway, I'll end my rant and reflection at that.
>
> Can anyone suggest a new tool for me to try? I'm
> considering NetBeans,
> only because I know of no others.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Troy.
>
> PS. Usage, and what I miss from JBuilder: JSP
> editing/debugging, remote
> edit via scp, database aware swing components, gui wysiwyg
> swing
> editing, jar application packaging (dependency slurping to
> single jar),
> vi editing!, and of course I'd like to have a nice js
> editor, but
> haven't ever seen one in the wild.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 21:46:52 +0530
> From: Brian Fernandes <infernalproteus at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [jsword-devel] Java IDE
> To: J-Sword Developers Mailing List
> <jsword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Message-ID: <49AEA974.1060601 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Troy,
>
> Have you tried MyEclipse? It has most of what you miss from
> JBuilder. It
> still is Eclipse based, but should have all you need
> already configured
> and polished, ready to go.
>
> Disclaimer: I work for Genuitec and I am the MyEclipseIDE
> team lead.
> We're working on the MyEclipse 7.1 release right now
> which should be
> released in a few day. I'm sure you'll like the JS
> editor we have in it too.
>
> I use MyEclipse for FireBible development as well.
>
> http://www.myeclipseide.com
>
> Brian.
>
> Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> > Hey Guys,
> >
> > Sorry for this slightly off-topic email, but since
> JBuilder folded I've
> > been lost.
> >
> > I have tried and tried and TRIED to like Eclipse, but
> after years of
> > trying, I'm giving up. My conclusion is that
> Eclipse barely functions
> > when I finally get all the disparate pieces and tools
> updated and
> > configured how they're supposed to be. It's
> sad. It's a great concept,
> > but in practice, it does not compare to a commercial
> tool integrated and
> > packaged by a single organization-- which I fear is
> the same for our
> > software sometimes.
> >
> > But anyway, I'll end my rant and reflection at
> that.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest a new tool for me to try? I'm
> considering NetBeans,
> > only because I know of no others.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Troy.
> >
> > PS. Usage, and what I miss from JBuilder: JSP
> editing/debugging, remote
> > edit via scp, database aware swing components, gui
> wysiwyg swing
> > editing, jar application packaging (dependency
> slurping to single jar),
> > vi editing!, and of course I'd like to have a nice
> js editor, but
> > haven't ever seen one in the wild.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jsword-devel mailing list
> > jsword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/jsword-devel
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 16:43:36 +0000
> From: Manfred Bergmann <bergmannmd at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [jsword-devel] Java IDE
> To: J-Sword Developers Mailing List
> <jsword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Message-ID:
> <26374152-042F-4158-B185-D2C201D99A4F at web.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
> Troy.
>
> Same here.
> I've worked years with Eclipse but then switched to
> NetBeans when
> version 5.0 was out.
> Even though I've switched again to IDEA which is
> unfortunately not
> free I still do some things with NetBeans and actually I
> don't know
> why so many use Eclipse.
> In my opinion NetBeans is so much better...
>
>
> Regards,
> Manfred
>
>
> Am 04.03.2009 um 16:00 schrieb Troy A. Griffitts:
>
> > Hey Guys,
> >
> > Sorry for this slightly off-topic email, but since
> JBuilder folded
> > I've been lost.
> >
> > I have tried and tried and TRIED to like Eclipse, but
> after years of
> > trying, I'm giving up. My conclusion is that
> Eclipse barely
> > functions when I finally get all the disparate pieces
> and tools
> > updated and configured how they're supposed to be.
> It's sad. It's
> > a great concept, but in practice, it does not compare
> to a
> > commercial tool integrated and packaged by a single
> organization--
> > which I fear is the same for our software sometimes.
> >
> > But anyway, I'll end my rant and reflection at
> that.
> >
> > Can anyone suggest a new tool for me to try? I'm
> considering
> > NetBeans, only because I know of no others.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -Troy.
> >
> > PS. Usage, and what I miss from JBuilder: JSP
> editing/debugging,
> > remote edit via scp, database aware swing components,
> gui wysiwyg
> > swing editing, jar application packaging (dependency
> slurping to
> > single jar), vi editing!, and of course I'd like
> to have a nice js
> > editor, but haven't ever seen one in the wild.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jsword-devel mailing list
> > jsword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/jsword-devel
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:29:11 -0700
> From: David Botterill <david at davidbotterill.com>
> Subject: Re: [jsword-devel] Java IDE
> To: J-Sword Developers Mailing List
> <jsword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Message-ID:
> <C4BDCF13-42D6-4B5B-AE8C-1C310DD8EDB7 at davidbotterill.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
> Format="flowed";
> DelSp="yes"
>
> Disclaimer: I work for Sun Microsystems, Inc., at least
> today :). I
> even used to be a NetBeans Evangelist until June of last
> year. I've
> been following this alias for some time and I've never
> replied to it
> so I know my credibility isn't established. Please
> understand that my
> comments are coming to you as my true experiences and not
> some
> marketing mumbo-jumbo. I first worked for the Sun tools
> organization
> in 2003. I can tell you I hated NetBeans. NetBeans was
> about version
> 3.5 at the time and it was extremely painful to use. We
> even had a
> guy on our team, that was developing a point product based
> on
> NetBeans, that used Eclipse because he couldn't take
> it. I started
> out on the project using JBuilder but soon decided I needed
> to eat my
> own dogfood so to speak. Since 2003, I've first-hand
> experienced an
> incredible transformation of NetBeans from a real miserable
> experience
> to the incredible out-of-box experience it is today. Sun
> has invested
> tons of engineering resources in NetBeans. As a NetBeans
> Evangelist,
> I constantly gave feedback to the engineering team about
> what
> developers wanted. Usually the features came from Eclipse
> or
> IntelliJ. We especially targeted IntelliJ's incredible
> editing
> experience as our goal. NetBeans has really come a long
> way.
>
> I would say the biggest plus you have with NetBeans over
> Eclipse is
> the "out-of-box" experience. In other words, you
> install the flavor
> or NetBeans you want and you're up and running without
> hunting down
> plugins to get working. Yes MyEclipse uses this model for
> Eclipse and
> that's really a bonus for developers. BTW, I'm
> glad to see a brother
> in a lead position at Genuitec (Brian Fernandes) :).
> NetBeans has an
> incredible JavaScript editor/debugger as well as PHP, Ruby,
> and Python
> support.
>
> NetBeans isn't perfect but it's an incredible IDE
> for free. Please
> feel free to ask me any questions about NetBeans.
>
> Also, I've seen another thread talking about using a
> Rich Client
> Platform (RCP) as a basis for Bible Desktop. NetBeans was
> the first
> RCP and Eclipse came along and admittedly did a better job
> in some
> areas. Please keep in mind that you will be stuck with SWT
> if you use
> the Eclipse RCP. Sun has also been investing heavily in
> the NetBeans
> RCP and it has made huge progress as well.
>
> Yes and someday I hope to have time to contribute to the
> JSword
> project. Who knows, maybe I'll download the code and
> get it up and
> running under NetBeans soon. I know God's using JSword
> to have an
> eternal impact on the world. :)
>
> Cheers!
> -David
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2009, at 9:43 AM, Manfred Bergmann wrote:
>
> > Troy.
> >
> > Same here.
> > I've worked years with Eclipse but then switched
> to NetBeans when
> > version 5.0 was out.
> > Even though I've switched again to IDEA which is
> unfortunately not
> > free I still do some things with NetBeans and actually
> I don't know
> > why so many use Eclipse.
> > In my opinion NetBeans is so much better...
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Manfred
> >
> >
> > Am 04.03.2009 um 16:00 schrieb Troy A. Griffitts:
> >
> >> Hey Guys,
> >>
> >> Sorry for this slightly off-topic email, but since
> JBuilder folded
> >> I've been lost.
> >>
> >> I have tried and tried and TRIED to like Eclipse,
> but after years
> >> of trying, I'm giving up. My conclusion is
> that Eclipse barely
> >> functions when I finally get all the disparate
> pieces and tools
> >> updated and configured how they're supposed to
> be. It's sad. It's
> >> a great concept, but in practice, it does not
> compare to a
> >> commercial tool integrated and packaged by a
> single organization--
> >> which I fear is the same for our software
> sometimes.
> >>
> >> But anyway, I'll end my rant and reflection at
> that.
> >>
> >> Can anyone suggest a new tool for me to try?
> I'm considering
> >> NetBeans, only because I know of no others.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> -Troy.
> >>
> >> PS. Usage, and what I miss from JBuilder: JSP
> editing/debugging,
> >> remote edit via scp, database aware swing
> components, gui wysiwyg
> >> swing editing, jar application packaging
> (dependency slurping to
> >> single jar), vi editing!, and of course I'd
> like to have a nice js
> >> editor, but haven't ever seen one in the wild.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> jsword-devel mailing list
> >> jsword-devel at crosswire.org
> >>
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/jsword-devel
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > jsword-devel mailing list
> > jsword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/jsword-devel
>
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> End of jsword-devel Digest, Vol 58, Issue 7
> *******************************************
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