[tyndale-devel] missing tags in ChiUns text

David F. Haslam df.haslam at btinternet.com
Wed Nov 21 04:12:07 MST 2012

Hi David,

The only time to watch out for is as and when you use my described
method to rebuild a module from an exported (then edited) IMP file.
The IMP file should be searched to find if there are occurrences of a
verse [or successive verses] with /identical text/ to the previous verse.
/This task can easily be scripted with any programming language that you

Whether or not the OSIS tags are properly formed for verse ranges is
related, but the nub of the issue is the /duplication/
which occurs with _all three Sword utilities_ that are capable of
exporting content from a module.

  * diatheke <http://crosswire.org/wiki/Frontends:Diatheke> (which is a
    useful front-end app in its own right, albeit a command line driven one)
  * *mod2imp* (now the main focus of this email thread)
  * *mod2osis* (which is 'sort of' deprecated, due to it being incapable
    to achieve a round trip with osis2mod)

Best regards,

On 2012-11-20 14:47, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
> (I don't know if you've already got this - I found it unsent in my Out
> box)
> Thanks David.
> Yes, we will be using lots of modules.
> On your link I found an example:
> <verse eID='Exod.22.2-Exod.22.4'/>
> So I searched a bunch of modules (about 130)  for RegEx   [0-9]-[A-Z]
> I found verse spans in lots of dictionaries & commentaries
> and in Bibles with notes & XRefs (eg ESV, LEB, Luther, NET, MHC)
> But I didn't find any using verse spans like that described.
> Looks like something we should watch out for, but it won't occur often.
> David IB
> At 13:28 20/11/2012, David F. Haslam wrote:
>> Hi David,
>> The warning was mainly geared to modules other than ChiUn & ChiUns.
>> /I just thought you might have more stuff in the pipeline for Tyndale
>> STEP,
>> so I didn't wish to leave you imagining that there were no pitfalls
>> in using the IMP format method./
>> When I referred to a verse range, this is best illustrated in USFM
>> format.
>> The extreme case I mentioned need not concern you, but in Paratext
>> the line began as follows:
>> \v 12-83 blah blah .....
>> When converted from USFM to OSIS this sort of thing becomes much more
>> complicated.
>> I already described the principles of linked verse ranges in this
>> section of a wiki talk page:
>> http://crosswire.org/wiki/Talk:OSIS_Bibles#Linked_verses
>> <http://crosswire.org/wiki/Talk:OSIS_Bibles#Linked_verses>
>> /Albeit the reason for doing so was to correct a different
>> misapprehension arising in another translation conversion project.
>> /
>> Paratext verse range tagging can be a nightmare! We've often seen
>> things like this:
>> \v 2-6a followed by the text for verse 2 through the first half of
>> verse 6
>> \v 6b-11 followed by the text for the second half of verse 6 through
>> verse 11
>> Converting such examples from USFM to OSIS is not so easy - and some
>> workarounds were usually required until now.
>> Hopefully, Chris Little's new python script will cover such issues
>> properly - once it's been fully tested.
>> These issues are unrelated to Alternate Versification
>> <http://crosswire.org/wiki/Alternate_Versification>. Default v11n for
>> SWORD modules is the KJV.
>> Your reference to Num.17 was therefore not relevant - this chapter
>> has 13 verses in both the KJV and the ChiUns Bibles.
>> Admittedly the WLC module (Hebrew) has 28 verses in Num.17 - but none
>> of these are a linked verse range in the sense being discussed.
>> cf.  The WLC module is configured with Versification=Leningrad
>> Best regards,
>> David
>> On 2012-11-20 11:54, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
>>> Thanks for the warning!
>>> I guess the verse range is in Num.17 where there is a severe
>>> mismatch between the KJV and Hebrew numbering.
>>> But presumably you don't mean that alternate versification makes it
>>> fall over
>>> Could you give me an example of the coding for a verse range so I
>>> know what to look out for?
>>> David IB
>>> At 10:36 20/11/2012, David F. Haslam wrote:
>>>> On 2012-11-19 14:47, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
>>>>> David,
>>>>> This is GREAT. I was concerned about mod2osis so this is really
>>>>> helpful.
>>>>> David IB
>>>> Hi David,
>>>> _Caveat_:  Beware of this problem:
>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/tracker/browse/MODTOOLS-31
>>>> <http://www.crosswire.org/tracker/browse/MODTOOLS-31>
>>>> This would affect modules that have linked verse ranges.
>>>> Rebuilding using imp2vs would thus lead to some duplicated verses
>>>> in the module.
>>>> One would require a workaround processing step to avoid this outcome.
>>>> For ChiUn and ChiUns, probably not a problem, as they follow the
>>>> KJV v11n.
>>>> Only three KJV verses are not tagged in these 2 modules. See
>>>> attached output from emptyvss.
>>>> Most more modern translations frequently have several or even many
>>>> Biblical passages tagged to a verse range.
>>>> cf. The longest example I've come across to date was one in which
>>>> verses 12-83 were given one tag for a passage somewhere in Numbers.
>>>> :'(
>>>> David
>>>     David IB 
>>>     Â  
>>>     ///Â Â  Dr David Instone-Brewer 
>>>     dib   Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament 
>>>     Â ^Â Â Â  Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK 
>>>     \=/Â Â  Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk
>>>     <mailto:Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk>Â Â Â Â Â 
>>>     www.TyndaleHouse.com <http://www.tyndalehouse.com/> 
>>     David IB 
>>     ///   Dr David Instone-Brewer 
>>     dib   Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament 
>>      ^    Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK 
>>     \=/   Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk      www.TyndaleHouse.com
>>     <http://www.tyndalehouse.com/> 

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