[tyndale-devel] missing tags in ChiUns text

[David Instone-Brewer]

Thanks David for these clear guidelines.

At 11:12 21/11/2012, David F. Haslam wrote:
>Hi David,
>
>The only time to watch out for is as and when 
>you use my described method to rebuild a module 
>from an exported (then edited) IMP file.
>The IMP file should be searched to find if there 
>are occurrences of a verse [or successive 
>verses] with identical text to the previous verse.
>This task can easily be scripted with any 
>programming language that you prefer.
>
>Whether or not the OSIS tags are properly formed 
>for verse ranges is related, but the nub of the issue is the duplication
>which occurs with all three Sword utilities that 
>are capable of exporting content from a module.
>    * 
> <http://crosswire.org/wiki/Frontends:Diatheke>diatheke 
> (which is a useful front-end app in its own 
> right, albeit a command line driven one)
>    * mod2imp (now the main focus of this email thread)
>    * mod2osis (which is 'sort of' deprecated, 
> due to it being incapable to achieve a round trip with osis2mod)
>
>Best regards,
>David
>
>On 2012-11-20 14:47, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
>>(I don't know if you've already got this - I found it unsent in my Out box)
>>
>>Thanks David.
>>
>>Yes, we will be using lots of modules.
>>
>>On your link I found an example:
>>
>>
>><verse eID='Exod.22.2-Exod.22.4'/>
>>
>>
>>So I searched a bunch of modules (about 130)  for RegEx   [0-9]-[A-Z]
>>I found verse spans in lots of dictionaries & commentaries
>>and in Bibles with notes & XRefs (eg ESV, LEB, Luther, NET, MHC)
>>But I didn't find any using verse spans like that described.
>>
>>Looks like something we should watch out for, but it won't occur often.
>>
>>David IB
>>
>>
>>At 13:28 20/11/2012, David F. Haslam wrote:
>>>Hi David,
>>>
>>>The warning was mainly geared to modules other than ChiUn & ChiUns.
>>>I just thought you might have more stuff in the pipeline for Tyndale STEP,
>>>so I didn't wish to leave you imagining that 
>>>there were no pitfalls in using the IMP format method.
>>>
>>>When I referred to a verse range, this is best illustrated in USFM format.
>>>The extreme case I mentioned need not concern 
>>>you, but in Paratext the line began as follows:
>>>
>>>\v 12-83 blah blah .....
>>>
>>>When converted from USFM to OSIS this sort of 
>>>thing becomes much more complicated.
>>>I already described the principles of linked 
>>>verse ranges in this section of a wiki talk page:
>>><http://crosswire.org/wiki/Talk:OSIS_Bibles#Linked_verses>http://crosswire.org/wiki/Talk:OSIS_Bibles#Linked_verses
>>>Albeit the reason for doing so was to correct 
>>>a different misapprehension arising in another translation conversion project.
>>>
>>>Paratext verse range tagging can be a 
>>>nightmare! We've often seen things like this:
>>>
>>>\v 2-6a followed by the text for verse 2 through the first half of verse 6
>>>\v 6b-11 followed by the text for the second 
>>>half of verse 6 through verse 11
>>>
>>>Converting such examples from USFM to OSIS is 
>>>not so easy - and some workarounds were usually required until now.
>>>Hopefully, Chris Little's new python script 
>>>will cover such issues properly - once it's been fully tested.
>>>
>>>These issues are unrelated to 
>>><http://crosswire.org/wiki/Alternate_Versification>Alternate 
>>>Versification. Default v11n for SWORD modules is the KJV.
>>>Your reference to Num.17 was therefore not 
>>>relevant - this chapter has 13 verses in both the KJV and the ChiUns Bibles.
>>>Admittedly the WLC module (Hebrew) has 28 
>>>verses in Num.17 - but none of these are a 
>>>linked verse range in the sense being discussed.
>>>cf.  The WLC module is configured with Versification=Leningrad
>>>
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>
>>>David
>>>
>>>On 2012-11-20 11:54, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
>>>>Thanks for the warning!
>>>>I guess the verse range is in Num.17 where 
>>>>there is a severe mismatch between the KJV and Hebrew numbering.
>>>>But presumably you don't mean that alternate 
>>>>versification makes it fall over
>>>>Could you give me an example of the coding 
>>>>for a verse range so I know what to look out for?
>>>>
>>>>David IB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At 10:36 20/11/2012, David F. Haslam wrote:
>>>>>On 2012-11-19 14:47, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
>>>>>>David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is GREAT. I was concerned about mod2osis so this is really helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>David IB
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>>Caveat:  Beware of this problem:
>>>>>
>>>>><http://www.crosswire.org/tracker/browse/MODTOOLS-31>http://www.crosswire.org/tracker/browse/MODTOOLS-31
>>>>>
>>>>>This would affect modules that have linked verse ranges.
>>>>>Rebuilding using imp2vs would thus lead to 
>>>>>some duplicated verses in the module.
>>>>>One would require a workaround processing step to avoid this outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>>For ChiUn and ChiUns, probably not a problem, as they follow the KJV v11n.
>>>>>Only three KJV verses are not tagged in 
>>>>>these 2 modules. See attached output from emptyvss.
>>>>>
>>>>>Most more modern translations frequently 
>>>>>have several or even many Biblical passages tagged to a verse range.
>>>>>cf. The longest example I've come across to 
>>>>>date was one in which verses 12-83 were 
>>>>>given one tag for a passage somewhere in Numbers. :'(
>>>>>
>>>>>David
>>>>David IB
>>>>ÂÂ
>>>>///   Dr David Instone-Brewer
>>>>dib   Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament
>>>> ^    Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK
>>>>\=/Â 
>>>> 
>>>><mailto:Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk>Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk 
>>>>     www.TyndaleHouse.com
>>>
>>>David IB
>>>Â
>>>///Â Â  Dr David Instone-Brewer
>>>dib   Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament
>>>Â ^Â Â Â  Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK
>>>\=/Â 
>>>Â 
>>><mailto:Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk>Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk 
>>>Â Â Â Â  www.TyndaleHouse.com

David IB

///   Dr David Instone-Brewer
dib   Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament
  ^    Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK
\=/   Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk      www.TyndaleHouse.com
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