[sword-devel] French Bible Segond 1910 with Strong's number

Wed Nov 6 03:26:27 EST 2024

Le 06/11/2024 à 00:48, yvand a écrit :
>
> Thank you all for your answers!
>
> I think if we can get the text (which is in public domain) from a 
> well-known bible editor, it is interesting and easier. Currently the 
> version Segond 1910 exists in different versions (differences in 
> notes/titles, maybe also in accents Ésaü/Esaü ?) and it is interesting 
> to know to what it corresponds. We can still share typos upstream 
> or/and use a patch to fix typos, and update wikisource text.
>
> If wikisource is the source, we need to know if and what paper edition 
> it matches exactly. If the reader can refer to a paper edition, it is 
> interesting. From where will come the text and notes in wikisource? 
> Which choices for notes/titles?
>
Personally, I don't know, but you can check for yourself if the 
facsimile 
<https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Fichier:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu> 
is correct. I know that a contributor has searched long and hard for 
this facsimile. I sincerely think that wikisource is the best place. We 
no longer need to ask anyone for the right to use the text (even in the 
public domain). What's more, Matej beat me to it: Arnaud's tool is 
absolutely incredible in its ability to convert to usfm or osis. I 
invite you to try it out. What's more, Arnaud is very responsive and 
saved me a lot of work. I now have 3 bibles in French on wikisource, the 
Glaire, the Giguet and the Crampon.

Now the text on wikisource only has the titles for some books. It 
remains to add the notes/crossreferences. But if you have a text with 
notes, it can be quite easy to download the wiki text and add the notes.

https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu
>
> Personally, I found domcox's proposition interesting.
>
>
> I connected to DBL and found 2 different projects :
>
> - "Français Louis Segond 1910" (last archive 2020-12-15)
>
> - "Louis Segond 1910 Original Corrected (Public Domain version)" (last 
> archive 2024-08-01) ("La Sainte Bible par Louis Segond 1910. Société 
> Biblique britannique et étrangere. Texte historique, références 
> corrigées en 2019." "Ce qu'il y a de nouveau dans l'édition actuelle, 
> ce sont surtout les parallèles. Là où ces parallèles rendaient 
> superflues les notes de M. Segond, celles-ci ont été supprimées. De 
> meme, les notes qui exprimaient une opinion théologique, ou qui 
> présentaient un commentairs sur le texte, ont été laissés de cote, 
> conformement aux statuts de la Société, qui excluent de ses éditions 
> de Écritures des notes de ce genre.")
>
> Both are published by British & Foreign Bible Society
>
> But the access seem not public. As this Bible is in public domain, I 
> guess they will share with us if we ask.
>
>
> Maybe Michael can help us to how the source of his module and how he 
> did it? Is it based on DBL? If so which project and what tool do you 
> use? from USX or USFM export?
>
>
> For versification, I agree with domcox's remark, we can keep the 
> original versification. I can convert from our versification (WLC for 
> OT / NA for NT) to the segond versification with a script.
>
>
> If we go that way, I guess we need to do those steps:
>
> 1. Access DBL, export data (text, notes, titles if present) in USX or 
> USFM from Paratext
>
> 2. Convert to OSIS (better for sword and required because USX and USFM 
> do not support Strong's number, isn't it ?)
>
> 3. Add Strong's numbers (= add <w> tags on words) : for this, I can 
> work to match exactly the text from the previous OSIS in our database, 
> and develop a tool to add the last version of our Strong's numbers on it.
>
> 4. Update sword module
>
> The last two steps (3. and 4.) will be regularly relaunched, because 
> we do corrections on Strong's numbers regurlarly. It is still a work 
> in progress, but I think the work is already not so not too bad.
>
>
> @Fr Cyrille : We need to exchange by email (not here) if and how we 
> can help you to add Strong's numbers on your néo-crampon version. Our 
> initial assignment tool (for Strong's numbers) has gathered dust and 
> requires french lemmatization and proper versification versions with 
> the WLC or NA to be effective. Can you send me a mail in French, with 
> more details (what is this new version? is it close to other French 
> versions other than Crampon? what is the actual format you use? which 
> versification?…).
>
>
> yvand
>
>
>
> Le 05/11/2024 à 19:38, domcox a écrit :
>> yvand <yvand.sword at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>>
>>> For Segond 1910, the text is in public domain. I used mod2imp to get 
>>> the text from the FreSegond (Crosswire) module months
>>> ago. The only changes we made are about versification. Indeed all 
>>> our texts use the same versification (based on WLC, for OT =
>>> German in sword), so the text matches the original (hebrew WLC or 
>>> greek MT/WH) one and we can easily compare
>>> translations.
>>
>> As lot of people still read the printed French Segond 1910 or 
>> derivatives, I think it's very important to match the printed
>> versification. Regular readers generally view Bible software with not 
>> matching versifications as second-rate software.
>> We have a matching Bible Segond versification, let's keep it that way.
>>
>>
>>> In the past, the FreLSG module had Strong's numbers. If I am correct 
>>> (see discussion "Strong numbers for Louis Segond" in
>>> 2013/07), we do not have the authorization (but still available in 
>>> STEP) so this module has been removed or replaced by
>>> FreSegond module (renamed ?).
>>
>> In the past, the FreLSG had Strong's numbers. It was upgraded later 
>> to a new version that was horrible, filled with errors
>> and even containing deuteros that never existed in the Segond Bible.
>>
>> This is why I made the FreSegond module, it was not an easy task. The 
>> Segond Bible is everywhere on the Web, but it looks like
>> all sites use the same source, and it's not accurate.
>>
>>
>>> The fraLSG1910eb (F10) module is a more recent one, available in 
>>> e-bible repo with headings, WoC and Strong's numbers. It
>>> seems to be a work in progress for Strong's numbers. They are not 
>>> available for all books. I compare Strong's numbers
>>> affectations for the first verses of Genesis 1 (see attached 
>>> screenshot) but there are errors in this module. On the left this
>>> module, on the right our data 
>>> (https://concordance.bible/Sg1910/Gen/1/).
>>
>> If I remember well, Michael have access to the DBL, so his module is 
>> certainly based on the official Public Domain version,
>> edited by the Alliance Biblique Française 
>> (https://lire.la-bible.net/bible/LSG/GEN.1)
>>
>>
>>> So I contact all of you (especially actual maintainers of Segond 
>>> 1910 modules and French users) what would be the
>>> best way of giving our Strong's numbers for Segond 1910 in a sword 
>>> module. I don't know who is concerned or interested
>>> that's why I send to the mailing list.
>>>
>>> As there is already many existing Segond 1910 sword module, it guess 
>>> it would not be a good idea of creating a new one. On
>>> one side, as our text is based from FreSegond module, it might be a 
>>> good idea of updating this module with Strong's numbers
>>> (the only difference is versification). On the other hand, the 
>>> fraLSG1910eb module offers Strong's numbers but our data seems
>>> more accurate and complete, so it could be interesting of updating 
>>> this module. In any case, it would be important to submit
>>> updates regularly for Strong's numbers.
>>
>> I think the best option for this module should be:
>>
>> 1. Have access to the DBL version
>> 2. Update the current CrossWire module from that source with 
>> footnotes, comments and cross-references, keeping the original 
>> versification
>> 3. Add Strong's numbers
>>
>>
>>
>
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