[sword-devel] French Bible Segond 1910 with Strong's number

Tue Nov 5 19:44:25 EST 2024

Hello, Yvand and all,

I am happy to host an improved Louis Segond 1910 with Strongs on eBible.org. The Strong's numbers I currently have are definitely in need of improvement. I have automated tools that can help with that if I can get a reliable lexicon with Strong's numbers. It sounds like you have been working on that.

The source formats I use for eBible.org are USFM, USX, and USFX. I generate OSIS from any one of those. Going from USFM to OSIS is easy. Going from OSIS to USFM is harder, and often involves some loss, because OSIS is so flexible that it gets used in so many ways that it is hard to make a general purpose converter. (I have a simple OSIS-to-USFX converter, but it doesn't handle all possible cases.)

The current USFM, USX, and USFX standards all support Strong's numbers just fine.

Wikisource could work if someone kept doing conversions to USFM, but I would prefer to host a project like this in Paratext (with its send/receive sharing) or Bibledit (which I host an instance of), as those fit with my automation flow much better. My automated work flow includes conversion to OSIS and Sword formats.

Your thoughts?

On 11/5/24 13:48, yvand wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your answers!
>
> I think if we can get the text (which is in public domain) from a well-known bible editor, it is interesting and easier. Currently the version Segond 1910 exists in different versions (differences in notes/titles, maybe also in accents Ésaü/Esaü ?) and it is interesting to know to what it corresponds. We can still share typos upstream or/and use a patch to fix typos, and update wikisource text.
>
> If wikisource is the source, we need to know if and what paper edition it matches exactly. If the reader can refer to a paper edition, it is interesting. From where will come the text and notes in wikisource? Which choices for notes/titles?
>
> Personally, I found domcox's proposition interesting.
>
>
> I connected to DBL and found 2 different projects :
>
> - "Français Louis Segond 1910" (last archive 2020-12-15)
>
> - "Louis Segond 1910 Original Corrected (Public Domain version)" (last archive 2024-08-01) ("La Sainte Bible par Louis Segond 1910. Société Biblique britannique et étrangere. Texte historique, références corrigées en 2019." "Ce qu'il y a de nouveau dans l'édition actuelle, ce sont surtout les parallèles. Là où ces parallèles rendaient superflues les notes de M. Segond, celles-ci ont été supprimées. De meme, les notes qui exprimaient une opinion théologique, ou qui présentaient un commentairs sur le texte, 
> ont été laissés de cote, conformement aux statuts de la Société, qui excluent de ses éditions de Écritures des notes de ce genre.")
>
> Both are published by British & Foreign Bible Society
>
> But the access seem not public. As this Bible is in public domain, I guess they will share with us if we ask.
>
>
> Maybe Michael can help us to how the source of his module and how he did it? Is it based on DBL? If so which project and what tool do you use? from USX or USFM export?
>
>
> For versification, I agree with domcox's remark, we can keep the original versification. I can convert from our versification (WLC for OT / NA for NT) to the segond versification with a script.
>
>
> If we go that way, I guess we need to do those steps:
>
> 1. Access DBL, export data (text, notes, titles if present) in USX or USFM from Paratext
>
> 2. Convert to OSIS (better for sword and required because USX and USFM do not support Strong's number, isn't it ?)
>
> 3. Add Strong's numbers (= add <w> tags on words) : for this, I can work to match exactly the text from the previous OSIS in our database, and develop a tool to add the last version of our Strong's numbers on it.
>
> 4. Update sword module
>
> The last two steps (3. and 4.) will be regularly relaunched, because we do corrections on Strong's numbers regurlarly. It is still a work in progress, but I think the work is already not so not too bad.
>
>
> @Fr Cyrille : We need to exchange by email (not here) if and how we can help you to add Strong's numbers on your néo-crampon version. Our initial assignment tool (for Strong's numbers) has gathered dust and requires french lemmatization and proper versification versions with the WLC or NA to be effective. Can you send me a mail in French, with more details (what is this new version? is it close to other French versions other than Crampon? what is the actual format you use? which versification?…).
>
>
> yvand
>
>
>
> Le 05/11/2024 à 19:38, domcox a écrit :
>> yvand <yvand.sword at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>>
>>> For Segond 1910, the text is in public domain. I used mod2imp to get the text from the FreSegond (Crosswire) module months
>>> ago. The only changes we made are about versification. Indeed all our texts use the same versification (based on WLC, for OT =
>>> German in sword), so the text matches the original (hebrew WLC or greek MT/WH) one and we can easily compare
>>> translations.
>>
>> As lot of people still read the printed French Segond 1910 or derivatives, I think it's very important to match the printed
>> versification. Regular readers generally view Bible software with not matching versifications as second-rate software.
>> We have a matching Bible Segond versification, let's keep it that way.
>>
>>
>>> In the past, the FreLSG module had Strong's numbers. If I am correct (see discussion "Strong numbers for Louis Segond" in
>>> 2013/07), we do not have the authorization (but still available in STEP) so this module has been removed or replaced by
>>> FreSegond module (renamed ?).
>>
>> In the past, the FreLSG had Strong's numbers. It was upgraded later to a new version that was horrible, filled with errors
>> and even containing deuteros that never existed in the Segond Bible.
>>
>> This is why I made the FreSegond module, it was not an easy task. The Segond Bible is everywhere on the Web, but it looks like
>> all sites use the same source, and it's not accurate.
>>
>>
>>> The fraLSG1910eb (F10) module is a more recent one, available in e-bible repo with headings, WoC and Strong's numbers. It
>>> seems to be a work in progress for Strong's numbers. They are not available for all books. I compare Strong's numbers
>>> affectations for the first verses of Genesis 1 (see attached screenshot) but there are errors in this module. On the left this
>>> module, on the right our data (https://concordance.bible/Sg1910/Gen/1/).
>>
>> If I remember well, Michael have access to the DBL, so his module is certainly based on the official Public Domain version,
>> edited by the Alliance Biblique Française (https://lire.la-bible.net/bible/LSG/GEN.1)
>>
>>
>>> So I contact all of you (especially actual maintainers of Segond 1910 modules and French users) what would be the
>>> best way of giving our Strong's numbers for Segond 1910 in a sword module. I don't know who is concerned or interested
>>> that's why I send to the mailing list.
>>>
>>> As there is already many existing Segond 1910 sword module, it guess it would not be a good idea of creating a new one. On
>>> one side, as our text is based from FreSegond module, it might be a good idea of updating this module with Strong's numbers
>>> (the only difference is versification). On the other hand, the fraLSG1910eb module offers Strong's numbers but our data seems
>>> more accurate and complete, so it could be interesting of updating this module. In any case, it would be important to submit
>>> updates regularly for Strong's numbers.
>>
>> I think the best option for this module should be:
>>
>> 1. Have access to the DBL version
>> 2. Update the current CrossWire module from that source with footnotes, comments and cross-references, keeping the original versification
>> 3. Add Strong's numbers
>>
>>
>>
>
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