[sword-devel] Second versions, Scottish Metric Psalter

Sun Jan 13 13:54:06 MST 2019

Aside: It turns out  that 13 Psalms actually have a Second Version.

Became clear over the weekend while I was editing the SFM file.

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 20:44, Peter von Kaehne <refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:

> Ok, this is my interrim solution which I plan. I think it should work
>
> I will create a double module - both confs in one file, second version
> in the second (sub)module. Then I will create reference links from one
> to the other at the header of each psalm with two versions. And back
> again.
>
> Peter
>
> On Sun, 2019-01-13 at 12:51 -0700, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>> A few thoughts...
>> How do we envisage a frontend displaying this text? Do we expect
>> each frontend to have special logic for displaying if there is a
>> variation of the chapter? Consider all the various display cases:
>> single Bible view, parallel Bible view, search results, etc... For
>> example, if this module is included in a parallel display with a
>> second module (say, Hebrew), what do we expect to happen if a chapter
>> is displayed which includes an alternative chapter?
>> I don't have any good ideas which avoid frontends including special
>> logic for something like this, which isn't reasonable. We do have at
>> least one other scenario which is similar: Rahlfs' LXX, which
>> includes alternate traditions for books. We also struggled with the
>> best way to capture and display this. More difficult, Ralhfs uses a
>> differing versification for alternate book traditions. We did proof
>> of concepts with adding Alt books to an LXX versification, allowing
>> LXX Book versifications to have enough chapter, book max to cover
>> either tradition, creating a single module, having 2 modules-- the
>> second having only the alternate traditions. I don't recall where we
>> left off on that or what strategy our current Rahlfs Bible uses. Our
>> CATSS LXX GenBook includes book traditions as 'A' and 'B',
>> http://crosswire.org/study/bookdisplay.jsp?mod=LXXM
>> But that just punts on the problem and uses GenBook because doesn't
>> need to solve the problem of relating 'A' and 'B' together somehow.
>> Just some thoughts,
>> Troy
>>
>> On 1/13/19 8:22 AM, David Haslam wrote:
>> > The best solution may be to have two SMP modules each with 150
>> > Psalms; one to have the V1s and the other to have the V2s for the
>> > Psalms with 2 versions.
>> >
>> > NB. The canonical title should also be supplied for the Version 2.
>> >
>> > These Psalms could be given an extra technical note to explain
>> > further.
>> >
>> > 138 Psalms would appear exactly the same in both modules, but the
>> > convenience more than compensates for the duplications.
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 14:17, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > In response to DM, I think that's the wrong approach, as it would
>> > > be confusing to mix two different metres for how the same Psalm
>> > > was metrified in English.
>> > > What's required is whole chapters as 2 different variants.
>> > >
>> > > There are 25 lines containing the word 'version':
>> > > s2 First Version
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First Version (S.M.)
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First Version
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First Version
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First Version
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First Version
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First Version - this version was retained from the 1562
>> > > English and 1564 Scottish Psalters. It is by William Kethe.
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > cl Psalm 102 There is also a Long Metre version below *
>> > > s2 First Version
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First Version (8.7.8.7. Iambic)
>> > > s2 Second Version (6.6.6.6.8.8.) This is a slightly modified
>> > > version of the Psalm as it first appeared in the Scottish Psalter
>> > > of 1564 *
>> > > s2 First Version (C.M.)
>> > > s2 Second Version (6.6.6.6.D.)
>> > > s2 First Version
>> > > s2 Second Version
>> > > s2 First version
>> > > s2 Second Version (6.6.6.6.8.8.)
>> > >
>> > > As you can see, one of these instances is simply within a note.
>> > > So there are in fact 12 Psalms that have a second metrical
>> > > version.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > > David
>> > >
>> > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>> > >
>> > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> > > On Saturday, 12 January 2019 13:55, refdoc at gmx.net <
>> > > refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Ah, yes, sorry
>> > > >
>> > > > Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
>> > > > autocorrects.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -------- Original Message --------
>> > > > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Second versions, Scottish Metric
>> > > > Psalter
>> > > > From: David Haslam
>> > > > To: DM Smith
>> > > > CC: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > NB. Peter's initial message contained a broken link to
>> > > > > https://github.com/refdoc/The-Scottish-Metric-Psalter-1650
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The repo is now at
>> > > > > https://gitlab.com/crosswire-bible-society/scottish-psalter-1650
>> > > > >
>> > > > > i.e. In our public facing location for PD text development.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Best regards,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > David
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>> > > > > On Saturday, 12 January 2019 13:25, DM Smith <
>> > > > > dmsmith at crosswire.org> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > If you make one module do it as variations verse by verse.
>> > > > > > JSword works on this basis. Each needs to be well-formed
>> > > > > > XML. Otherwise it will toss the markup.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Do the canonical headings vary too? That might pose a
>> > > > > > single module problem.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > David and I have discussed supporting multiple KJV modules
>> > > > > > from a single xml doc using a filter (e.g. XSLT) to produce
>> > > > > > subsets. Examples, with Apocrypha, without such, long s
>> > > > > > variant, .....
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I already have a couple of XSLT filters that others
>> > > > > > requested: no notes or Strong’s numbers; Plaintext.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > In Him,
>> > > > > > DM Smith
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Jan 12, 2019, at 7:38 AM, David Haslam <
>> > > > > > dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > > Sparsely populated....
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:37, refdoc at gmx.net <
>> > > > > > > refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > Never looked at it. Why?
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos
>> > > > > > > > and weird autocorrects.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > -------- Original Message --------
>> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Second versions, Scottish
>> > > > > > > > Metric Psalter
>> > > > > > > > From: David Haslam
>> > > > > > > > To: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> > > > > > > > CC:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > You mean the Samaritan Pentateuch Dead Sea Scrolls
>> > > > > > > > > variant module SPDSS isn't rather more of an overkill
>> > > > > > > > > ?
>> > > > > > > > > Have you ever looked at the contents?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I was about to suggest the same as Tom Sullivan did.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > A second module with just the alternative versions of
>> > > > > > > > > these 11 or 12 Psalms,
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > But is there a third metrical version of any Psalm?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > David
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 10:30, Peter von Kaehne <
>> > > > > > > > > refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2019-01-12 at 05:15 -0500, Tom Sullivan
>> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > Peter:
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > Suggestion: Make 2 modules, one for each
>> > > > > > > > > > translation. Most front
>> > > > > > > > > > > ends
>> > > > > > > > > > > will do parallel display.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > For 11 or 12 (I need to count them) psalms that
>> > > > > > > > > > seems overkill.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Peter
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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>> >
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