[sword-devel] LXX Strongs & Morphology

Thu Feb 7 14:27:47 MST 2019

JSword allows the setting of a Greek Mophology module. It doesn’t use the work given in the morph or lemma attributes. Forked XST can provide a different mechanism.

— DM Smith
From my phone. Brief. Weird autocorrections. 

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 3:26 PM, pierre amadio <amadio.pierre at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi there !
> 
> I find it strange that the LXX module tells it is using packard's
> morphological code.
> 
> Earlier in 2018, I started to use the LXX module (Version 2.5) and
> installed the Packard module as well.
> Then, i realised that the tool I was using gave me a lot of wrong information.
> 
> The error were visible with diatheke as well, so it was not a bug in
> the frontend i was using:
> 
> $ diatheke -b LXX -o avm -f PLAIN -k Gen 1:1
> Genesis 1:1: εν (PREP) αρχη (N-DSF) εποιησεν (V-AAI-3S) ο (T-NSM) θεος
> (N-NSM) τον (T-ASM) ουρανον (N-ASM) και (CONJ) την (T-ASF) γην (N-ASF)
> (LXX)
> 
> θεος (N-NSM) is obviously nominative, however asking for the packard
> key gives vocative as a result.
> 
> $ diatheke -b Packard  -f PLAIN -k N-NSM
> : Part of speech: noun, indeclinable proper noun Case: vocative
> Number: singular Gender: neuter
> 
> Looking at εποιησεν (V-AAI-3S), it tells me it is a passive pluperfect 3s...
> 
> Now, for the same codes, the robinson module gives result thats looks correct:
> 
> $ diatheke -b Robinson  -f PLAIN -k N-NSM
> : * Part of Speech *: Noun
> * Case *: Nominative
> * Number *: Singular
> * Gender *: Masculine
> (Robinson)
> 
> $ diatheke -b Robinson  -f PLAIN -k V-AAI-3S
> : * Part of Speech *: Verb
> * Tense *: Aorist
> * Voice *: Active
> * Mood *: Indicative
> * Person *: third
> * Number *: Singular
> (Robinson)
> 
> I do not know if this is related to your problem, nor why LXX is
> mentionning packard in the morph code tag, but it could be interesting
> to see what happen if you try to use the Robinson module instead of
> the Packard one.
> 
>> On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 at 20:41, Dudeck, John <John.Dudeck at sim.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Further info:
>> 
>> I dumped the LXX and TR modules using mod2imp.
>> 
>> 1) I see that the LXX morphology uses the module packard. So I downloaded packard from Crosswire.
>> 
>> 2) I see that those words that do not have a Strongs number have the morphology duplicated in the Strongs field (!!!) So in Malachi 1:1 you can see for the first word it shows:
>> 
>> <w lemma="strong:GN-NSN" morph="packard:N-NSN">λημμα</w>
>> 
>> which is wrong!
>> 
>> $$$Malachi 1:1
>> <w lemma="strong:GN-NSN" morph="packard:N-NSN">λημμα</w> <w lemma="strong:G3056" morph="packard:N-GSM">λογου</w> <w lemma="strong:G2962" morph="packard:N-GSM">κυριου</w> <w lemma="strong:G1909" morph="packard:PREP">επι</w> <w lemma="strong:G3588" morph="packard:T-ASM">τον</w> <w lemma="strong:G2474" morph="packard:N-PRI">ισραηλ</w> <w lemma="strong:G1722" morph="packard:PREP">εν</w> <w lemma="strong:G5495" morph="packard:N-DSF">χειρι</w> <w lemma="strong:G32" morph="packard:N-GSM">αγγελου</w> <w lemma="strong:G846" morph="packard:D-GSM">αυτου</w> <w lemma="strong:G5087" morph="packard:V-AMM-2P">θεσθε</w> <w lemma="strong:G1211" morph="packard:PRT">δη</w> <w lemma="strong:G1909" morph="packard:PREP">επι</w> <w lemma="strong:G3588" morph="packard:T-APF">τας</w> <w lemma="strong:G2588" morph="packard:N-APF">καρδιας</w> <w lemma="strong:G5216" morph="packard:P-GP">υμων</w>
>> 
>> A quick regular expression shows that there are 30512 words where the strongs number has morphology in the field out of 475348 total words.
>> 
>> 3) The morphology field is not being displayed by AndBible. Only Strongs is being displayed. I see no differences in the tagging syntax used.
>> 
>> 
>> The mods.d/lxx.conf and tr.conf files both contain:
>> 
>> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISStrongs
>> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISMorph
>> Feature=StrongsNumbers
>> 
>> So I don't understand why one displays the Morphology codes and the other does not.
>> 
>> Any ideas?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> The behavior in AndBible for the LXX is rather odd. It doesn't matter where you look in the text,
>>> the symptoms appear the same everywhere.
>>> 
>>> When you tap 'nnnn' to display Strongs numbers, it displays the Strongs numbers, BUT for those
>>> words where there is no Strongs, it displays a Morphology code. As David mentions, in Mal 1:1, it
>>> shows N-NSN for the first word, and Strongs numbers for the rest of the words in the verse.
>>> 
>>> If you open the display menu (three dots menu), Strongs and Morphology are both checked. If you
>>> uncheck Morphology, nothing changes in the display. If you check Morphology and uncheck
>>> Strongs, all of the Strongs disappear, and no Morphology codes are displayed. If you then touch
>>> 'nnnn' again, it displays Strongs, but in the display menu Strongs is unchecked and Morphology is
>>> checked but grayed out.
>>> 
>>> If you touch a Strongs number, it displays the entry as expected. If you touch a Morphology code
>>> (eg. N-NSN as above), it looks up the word 'N-NSN' in Strongs Hebrew and displays the entry
>>> 3476 Naasson. If you touch 'V-PAPRP', it displays entry 3578 xenia from Strong's Greek.
>>> 
>>> By comparison with the TR Textus Receptus, when you tap 'nnnn' to display Strongs numbers, it
>>> displays the Strongs number followed by the Morphology (with no space between). You can touch
>>> the number and it brings up the Strongs entry from Strongs Greek. You can touch the Morphology
>>> and it brings up the Robinson's codes. If you open the display menu and uncheck Morphology, it
>>> shows only the Strongs numbers. However you cannot display Morphology if Strongs is not
>>> displayed.
>>> 
>>> I would assume that the behavior of the display menu in AndBible is an AndBible issue, and it's
>>> not really a problem, just a minor logic bug. But the inability to display Morphology in LXX is an
>>> issue.
>>> 
>>> I imagine this could either be addressed in AndBible, or in the LXX source. Is Tuomas reading
>>> this, or do I need to write him separately?
>>> 
>>> Where do I find the LXX source? Maybe this is something that can be corrected fairly easily.
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>>> LXX installed in PocketSword can display both or either.
>>>> 
>>>> There are some tagging errors such as the one I spotted in the first word of Malachi 1:1
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve not looked at more than one location before responding on whether the 2 features work.
>>>> 
>>>> Could it be AndBible or did you perhaps sample a location with many more tagging issues?
>>>> 
>>>> David
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 01:19, Dudeck, John <John.Dudeck at sim.org> wrote:
>>>> Greetings.
>>>> 
>>>> I've just tried loading the LXX in AndBible. Supposedly it has both Strongs numbers and
>>>> Morphology tagging. But in AndBible it only displays Morphology when there is no Strongs
>>>> number on a given word. And in that case it tries to look up the Morphology in Strongs. In
>>>> Xiphos you can see where there is no Strongs number in those cases.
>>>> 
>>>> By the way I am using our own French version of Strongs. Is the morphology lookup
>>>> supposed to be in Strongs for LXX? With the Textus Receptus it needs Robinson's module.
>>>> 
>>>> In contrast the Textus Receptus displays both Strongs and Morphology.
>>>> 
>>>> Does this mean there is a tagging problem in the LXX? Or is it an AndBible/Jsword
>>>> problem?
>> 
>> John Dudeck
>> Programmer at Editions Cle                             Lyon, France
>> john.dudeck at sim.org                            john at editionscle.com
>> --
>> "Good things come to those who wait, / Not to those who hesitate." -- Petra
>> 
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