[sword-devel] LXX Strongs & Morphology

Thu Feb 7 13:26:09 MST 2019

Hi there !

I find it strange that the LXX module tells it is using packard's
morphological code.

Earlier in 2018, I started to use the LXX module (Version 2.5) and
installed the Packard module as well.
Then, i realised that the tool I was using gave me a lot of wrong information.

The error were visible with diatheke as well, so it was not a bug in
the frontend i was using:

$ diatheke -b LXX -o avm -f PLAIN -k Gen 1:1
Genesis 1:1: εν (PREP) αρχη (N-DSF) εποιησεν (V-AAI-3S) ο (T-NSM) θεος
(N-NSM) τον (T-ASM) ουρανον (N-ASM) και (CONJ) την (T-ASF) γην (N-ASF)
(LXX)

θεος (N-NSM) is obviously nominative, however asking for the packard
key gives vocative as a result.

$ diatheke -b Packard  -f PLAIN -k N-NSM
: Part of speech: noun, indeclinable proper noun Case: vocative
Number: singular Gender: neuter

Looking at εποιησεν (V-AAI-3S), it tells me it is a passive pluperfect 3s...

Now, for the same codes, the robinson module gives result thats looks correct:

$ diatheke -b Robinson  -f PLAIN -k N-NSM
: * Part of Speech *: Noun
* Case *: Nominative
* Number *: Singular
* Gender *: Masculine
(Robinson)

$ diatheke -b Robinson  -f PLAIN -k V-AAI-3S
: * Part of Speech *: Verb
* Tense *: Aorist
* Voice *: Active
* Mood *: Indicative
* Person *: third
* Number *: Singular
(Robinson)

I do not know if this is related to your problem, nor why LXX is
mentionning packard in the morph code tag, but it could be interesting
to see what happen if you try to use the Robinson module instead of
the Packard one.

On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 at 20:41, Dudeck, John <John.Dudeck at sim.org> wrote:
>
> Further info:
>
> I dumped the LXX and TR modules using mod2imp.
>
> 1) I see that the LXX morphology uses the module packard. So I downloaded packard from Crosswire.
>
> 2) I see that those words that do not have a Strongs number have the morphology duplicated in the Strongs field (!!!) So in Malachi 1:1 you can see for the first word it shows:
>
> <w lemma="strong:GN-NSN" morph="packard:N-NSN">λημμα</w>
>
> which is wrong!
>
> $$$Malachi 1:1
> <w lemma="strong:GN-NSN" morph="packard:N-NSN">λημμα</w> <w lemma="strong:G3056" morph="packard:N-GSM">λογου</w> <w lemma="strong:G2962" morph="packard:N-GSM">κυριου</w> <w lemma="strong:G1909" morph="packard:PREP">επι</w> <w lemma="strong:G3588" morph="packard:T-ASM">τον</w> <w lemma="strong:G2474" morph="packard:N-PRI">ισραηλ</w> <w lemma="strong:G1722" morph="packard:PREP">εν</w> <w lemma="strong:G5495" morph="packard:N-DSF">χειρι</w> <w lemma="strong:G32" morph="packard:N-GSM">αγγελου</w> <w lemma="strong:G846" morph="packard:D-GSM">αυτου</w> <w lemma="strong:G5087" morph="packard:V-AMM-2P">θεσθε</w> <w lemma="strong:G1211" morph="packard:PRT">δη</w> <w lemma="strong:G1909" morph="packard:PREP">επι</w> <w lemma="strong:G3588" morph="packard:T-APF">τας</w> <w lemma="strong:G2588" morph="packard:N-APF">καρδιας</w> <w lemma="strong:G5216" morph="packard:P-GP">υμων</w>
>
> A quick regular expression shows that there are 30512 words where the strongs number has morphology in the field out of 475348 total words.
>
> 3) The morphology field is not being displayed by AndBible. Only Strongs is being displayed. I see no differences in the tagging syntax used.
>
>
> The mods.d/lxx.conf and tr.conf files both contain:
>
> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISStrongs
> GlobalOptionFilter=OSISMorph
> Feature=StrongsNumbers
>
> So I don't understand why one displays the Morphology codes and the other does not.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> John
>
> > The behavior in AndBible for the LXX is rather odd. It doesn't matter where you look in the text,
> > the symptoms appear the same everywhere.
> >
> > When you tap 'nnnn' to display Strongs numbers, it displays the Strongs numbers, BUT for those
> > words where there is no Strongs, it displays a Morphology code. As David mentions, in Mal 1:1, it
> > shows N-NSN for the first word, and Strongs numbers for the rest of the words in the verse.
> >
> > If you open the display menu (three dots menu), Strongs and Morphology are both checked. If you
> > uncheck Morphology, nothing changes in the display. If you check Morphology and uncheck
> > Strongs, all of the Strongs disappear, and no Morphology codes are displayed. If you then touch
> > 'nnnn' again, it displays Strongs, but in the display menu Strongs is unchecked and Morphology is
> > checked but grayed out.
> >
> > If you touch a Strongs number, it displays the entry as expected. If you touch a Morphology code
> > (eg. N-NSN as above), it looks up the word 'N-NSN' in Strongs Hebrew and displays the entry
> > 3476 Naasson. If you touch 'V-PAPRP', it displays entry 3578 xenia from Strong's Greek.
> >
> > By comparison with the TR Textus Receptus, when you tap 'nnnn' to display Strongs numbers, it
> > displays the Strongs number followed by the Morphology (with no space between). You can touch
> > the number and it brings up the Strongs entry from Strongs Greek. You can touch the Morphology
> > and it brings up the Robinson's codes. If you open the display menu and uncheck Morphology, it
> > shows only the Strongs numbers. However you cannot display Morphology if Strongs is not
> > displayed.
> >
> > I would assume that the behavior of the display menu in AndBible is an AndBible issue, and it's
> > not really a problem, just a minor logic bug. But the inability to display Morphology in LXX is an
> > issue.
> >
> > I imagine this could either be addressed in AndBible, or in the LXX source. Is Tuomas reading
> > this, or do I need to write him separately?
> >
> > Where do I find the LXX source? Maybe this is something that can be corrected fairly easily.
> >
> > John
> >
> > > LXX installed in PocketSword can display both or either.
> > >
> > > There are some tagging errors such as the one I spotted in the first word of Malachi 1:1
> > >
> > > I’ve not looked at more than one location before responding on whether the 2 features work.
> > >
> > > Could it be AndBible or did you perhaps sample a location with many more tagging issues?
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 01:19, Dudeck, John <John.Dudeck at sim.org> wrote:
> > > Greetings.
> > >
> > > I've just tried loading the LXX in AndBible. Supposedly it has both Strongs numbers and
> > > Morphology tagging. But in AndBible it only displays Morphology when there is no Strongs
> > > number on a given word. And in that case it tries to look up the Morphology in Strongs. In
> > > Xiphos you can see where there is no Strongs number in those cases.
> > >
> > > By the way I am using our own French version of Strongs. Is the morphology lookup
> > > supposed to be in Strongs for LXX? With the Textus Receptus it needs Robinson's module.
> > >
> > > In contrast the Textus Receptus displays both Strongs and Morphology.
> > >
> > > Does this mean there is a tagging problem in the LXX? Or is it an AndBible/Jsword
> > > problem?
>
> John Dudeck
> Programmer at Editions Cle                             Lyon, France
> john.dudeck at sim.org                            john at editionscle.com
> --
> "Good things come to those who wait, / Not to those who hesitate." -- Petra
>
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