[sword-devel] LXX v11n issues

Troy A. Griffitts scribe at crosswire.org
Sat Jan 6 12:51:17 MST 2018 

Dear Cyrille,

Are you taking into account my comment about our v11ns being supersets
from multiple Bibles and the comments at the beginning of the LXX v11n?

// This is a compromise versification system, intended to allow encoding of Bibles using a number of slightly varying LXX-based versification systems. In particular, it was produced in consultation with OTs:
// Rahlfs', Swete's, Tischendorf's, & Thomson's editions of the LXX
// the NETS, SAAS (OSB OT), Brenton, & Asser translations
// R. H. Charles' & James H. Charlesworth's anthologies of Apocrypha & Pseudepigrapha
// Henry E. J. Howard's Pentateuch and R. R. Ottley's Isaiah translations from the LXX

// In addition to the LXX OT, the GNT has been included in this system to facilitate production of modern Bibles such as the OSB, which are translated from the LXX but include the NT as well. The following NTs were consulted in producing this versification system:
// Antoniades' Patriarchal GNT and its translation, the EOB
// the NKJV (OSB NT) & NRSV translations

// All of these Bibles & texts should be accomodated by this versification definition without requiring that any extra verses be appended; as a consequence, no Bible will include every verse of this system.



On 01/06/2018 12:47 PM, Cyrille wrote:
>
>
> Le 06/01/2018 à 20:13, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
>>
>> These v11ns are not in the sources because we are still researching. 
>> But since these have been double checked to printed editions,
>>
>
> I have the printing edition!! And this report is about the printing
> edition, not about the doc file. But the doc file correspond exactly
> to the printing edition.
>>
>> I highly doubt whatever 'errors' you see are actually errors in the
>> v11n, but rather a bad source text.  I am sorry for speculating, but
>> I know these v11ns were checked and verified by a second individual
>> against a printed edition and also know there is a ton of low quality
>> texts online which claim to be things which they are not.
>>
> The check was not good done.
>>
>> These are simply my suspicions without having the time now to put in
>> the research.  I hope you find a way to check and confirm.
>>
> Then I can confirm this :
> The current canon_LXX.h and the LXX,rahlfs.h don't match with the
> printing edition, I have with me.
>>
>> Troy
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/06/2018 12:06 PM, Cyrille wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 06/01/2018 à 18:36, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Dear Cyrille,
>>>>
>>>> I just did a brief diff between the canon_lxx.h and the
>>>> canon_lxx-super.h I sent you in my previous email, and the
>>>> differences don't look like anything useful.  I must be mistaken
>>>> about what this file is.  Have a read of the comments in the file I
>>>> send and those in the canon_lxx.h included in 1.8.0.  They are very
>>>> similar, but the *-super.h v11n includes this comment near the end
>>>> of the header:
>>>>
>>>> "This is not intended for critical editions that separately encode
>>>> variant traditions of Joshua, Judges, Tobit, etc. that are already
>>>> served by the Rahlfs versification system (q.v.)."
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure to what the "Rahlfs versification system (q.v.)"
>>>> refers, nor the /quod vide/ at the end of the reference.
>>>>
>>>> I could possibly refer to the analysis of Rahlfs in the LXX v11n
>>>> folder I send to you earlier, specifically here, but I am not sure:
>>>>
>>>> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/lxx_v11ns/canon_rahlfs.h
>>>>
>>> My question is why this v11n are not in the sources? And I compare
>>> the Rahlfs.h, it's not good... still a lot of issues. I ready to
>>> perform it. Please let me know the good way to help.
>>> But it clear for me that for the current source I have, it's not
>>> possible to use the current LXX v11n.
>>>>
>>>> But I do not see any accommodation for alternate traditions in
>>>> there.  I may need to go search old emails to dig up the
>>>> discussions on this.
>>>>
>>>> Troy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/06/2018 09:36 AM, Cyrille wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 06/01/2018 à 17:16, Troy A. Griffitts a écrit :
>>>>>> Hi Cyrille,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a few comments which I hope will clear up a few things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The sword-tools SVN repo needs to be checked out to your computer
>>>>>> before you can run the convert.sh for CCAT. The repo contains the
>>>>>> .jar file you asked about. You cannot just download the
>>>>>> individual convert.sh script.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok It's clear. I need to clone it with hg? The user is this from
>>>>> the automatic email send? If it is this email I can't find it
>>>>> again :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SWORD versifications are often a superset for multiple Bibles.
>>>>>> The SWORD engine provides a facility for frontends to easily skip
>>>>>> empty entries. Thus, when you discover that a chapter here or a
>>>>>> chapter there has too many verses, it is probably that way to
>>>>>> support another Bible which has more verses for that chapter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LXX v11n has been researched extensively by Chris and others.
>>>>>> There are many issues regarding the LXX which are not easily
>>>>>> resolved, e.g., Rahlfs providing two textual traditions of the
>>>>>> same book in parallel with different versifications. I h research
>>>>>> for LXX in general can be found here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/lxx_v11ns/
>>>>>
>>>>> OK but what to do?? Is it possible to use the Rahlfs with
>>>>> osis2mod? Because Rahlfs is not the current one. I have the Rahlfs
>>>>> text. If I use the current LXX v11n with my text I will have
>>>>> really a lot of issues!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Troy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On January 6, 2018 9:01:01 AM MST, Cyrille
>>>>>> <lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Hello,
>>>>>>     Before to work on a new module for the LXX, I decided to verify the
>>>>>>     current LXX v11n. And what was my surprise discovering many errors!
>>>>>>     Please can you give me the list of the current modules using LXX v11n?
>>>>>>     I will propose a new with correction, some books give me worries, like
>>>>>>     Esther, which contains a versification in letter, I will make you a
>>>>>>     proposal once my verification is finished. I work with the A. Rahlfs
>>>>>>     (maybe the current LXX v11n was made with an other ?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Best regards, Br Cyrille
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>>>>>     http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>>>>>     Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
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