[sword-devel] Modules, Tracker - some remarks
Cyrille
lafricain79 at gmail.com
Tue Dec 4 11:54:23 MST 2018
Le 04/12/2018 à 17:33, David Haslam a écrit :
> Thanks for responding Michael.
>
> I’ve not done any work on the CPDV other than module analysis.
>
>
> Cyrille,
> I cannot post to this mailing list any useful list of projects for
> which I have obtained USFM or OSIS files.
Yes, ok maybe in private? We can continue to speak about it and git repo
for it.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 16:12, Michael H <cmahte at gmail.com
> <mailto:cmahte at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Cyrille,
>>
>> I have sources for CPDV. I've been working with Ron Conte early this
>> year from January - May. They are complete except for the phrasing of
>> poetic books. However, I'm not working on them right now. I'll
>> contact you off list.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:25 AM Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 03/12/2018 à 20:15, David Haslam a écrit :
>>> It's generally safe to assume that taking the initiative to work
>>> towards a module update or new module release is unlikely to
>>> duplicate work already started by another volunteer.
>>>
>> I just ask if I can work on CPDV because I didn't have answer
>> about sources. Just to be sure you don't have osis or usfm files.
>> Is it possible to publish a list of the sources of all module you
>> have? Or it's not possible?
>>> Once you've dived in and got deep into the details, the fact
>>> that you may need to ask a technical question about module
>>> development in that specific context, this will alert CrossWire
>>> about what you're aiming to accomplish.
>>>
>>> Finding by coincidence that two volunteers have independently
>>> taken the initiative for the same task is such a rare event that
>>> I can't think of an instance when this has happened. Even so, it
>>> often succeeds better when a pair of CrossWire volunteers choose
>>> to work together on such a project. "Two are better than one" as
>>> the writer of Ecclesiastes taught.
>>>
>>> Nobody needs to ask CrossWire for permission to pick up a task
>>> in modules and run with it.
>>> As long as all the requirements for module submissions are met,
>>> it's unlikely that any other CrossWire volunteer will object to
>>> your active involvement.
>>>
>>> Module updates for those where a text source is specified in the
>>> .conf file may require getting the owner of the text to become
>>> involved in making corrections to the text that they host.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 18:46, Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> As we don't know if a module enter in the first case (not
>>>> maintain) or the second (retain copies of source text files),
>>>> you can understand that the question about source is relevant :)
>>>> Maybe you can give us a date about when the module team retains
>>>> copies? After that it will be easier to know if you have or no
>>>> sources.
>>>> I understand also something about a collaborator who leave the
>>>> module team? I am not informed about this.
>>>> And maybe the gitlab private repo will be really help full. We
>>>> spoke already about it.
>>>> The problem of source is really important because if we can't
>>>> access to it, we can't help you :) Is it imaginable to create
>>>> this kind of gitlab repo with all the source you have already?
>>>> If someone want to check you can give him access, even temporary.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just looking for solution.
>>>>
>>>> Le 03/12/2018 à 17:14, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>>> This has been stated on numerous occasions.
>>>>>
>>>>> *CrossWire as a Society does not maintain the authoritative
>>>>> source text for modules except for very few cases, namely the
>>>>> KJV & KJVA modules.*
>>>>>
>>>>> Individual volunteers may indeed have [had] access to working
>>>>> copies of source texts for some modules as part of past or
>>>>> ongoing work in progress.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, when such module issues were reported, this is
>>>>> generally because the reporting was done in the role of a user
>>>>> making observations from module testing or analysis - rather
>>>>> than as a module developer and/or source text collaborator.
>>>>>
>>>>> That a certain volunteer went AWOL (having left CrossWire and
>>>>> in effect cut himself off from further contact) this simply
>>>>> means that his knowledge, skills, /ad hoc/ working scripts,
>>>>> customised software tools and file resources are no longer
>>>>> available to other volunteers. The trail went cold. We simply
>>>>> have to begin again from scratch on these issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now of course, there are volunteers such as myself and several
>>>>> others that are active in source text development
>>>>> collaboration with third parties.
>>>>> This enables us to provide a benefit to those not directly
>>>>> involved in Bible translation activities in the various
>>>>> well-established Bible agencies and societies.
>>>>> i.e. Because such people are often using something other than
>>>>> ParaTExt (or Bibledit) to maintain their source text.
>>>>> We have various software skills and some tools that can assist
>>>>> such providers get their source text into a format (USFM & OSIS)
>>>>> that is more amenable for electronic publishing in forms
>>>>> suitable for Bible software in general and including SWORD
>>>>> modules for distribution by CrossWire.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the present "modules team", in projects that are likely to
>>>>> go through more than one iteration, every effort is being made
>>>>> to retain copies of source text files.
>>>>> But keeping a working copy is not the same as maintaining an
>>>>> authoritative source. We're back to ownership, provenance and
>>>>> version control matters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally, for copyrighted works, these should be kept in a
>>>>> private repository, and only shared with others where
>>>>> collaboration is essential.
>>>>> Even so, that still leaves a lot of collaboration work where
>>>>> the files for work in progress are probably stored only on the
>>>>> individual volunteer's computer rather than in accessible
>>>>> cloud services such as GitHub or GitLab, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>>>>
>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>>>> On Monday, 3 December 2018 15:01, Cyrille
>>>>> <lafricain79 at gmail.com> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 03/12/2018 à 14:45, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>>>>> Posting comments on multiple issues that are several years
>>>>>>> old that simply ask questions like "Do you have the source?"
>>>>>>> don't get us anywhere forward soon.
>>>>>>> They can even become a distraction in the originator's email
>>>>>>> notifications.
>>>>>> Ok I understand, but when you (or the team) build the modules
>>>>>> you had some source no? Where are this sources? Didn't you
>>>>>> keep the osis files or usfm file when you had it? Just CPDV
>>>>>> as example. I would like to be sure nobody keeps usfm or osis
>>>>>> file before working on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of these old issues were originally added by me as long
>>>>>>> ago as 2011 when CrossWire still had someone responsible for
>>>>>>> building the original modules.
>>>>>>> They were added on the assumption that this person would
>>>>>>> have known the module history and was in a position to do
>>>>>>> all the necessary work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That he went AWOL and these issues are still open
>>>>>>> essentially means that to make any progress now, someone
>>>>>>> will need to champion each module, do the research, find the
>>>>>>> latest source text, do the conversion to OSIS, rebuild and
>>>>>>> test the module, and check that the issue is then fixed,
>>>>>>> before submitting to the Modules Team.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will not be adding replies to new comments unless I have
>>>>>>> new information to hand that was unavailable when each issue
>>>>>>> were created.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>>>>>> On Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:21, Cyrille
>>>>>>> <lafricain79 at gmail.com> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please Peter, can you post even if you don't have the
>>>>>>>> source? It will be easier, because I post on multiples
>>>>>>>> issues, I don't remember exactly which...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 02/12/2018 à 18:54, DM Smith a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> The Internet Wayback Machine is useful for dead URLs. I’ve
>>>>>>>>> used it to find resources no longer available and to make
>>>>>>>>> contact w people.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> — DM Smith
>>>>>>>>> From my phone. Brief. Weird autocorrections.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2018, at 10:47 AM, "refdoc at gmx.net
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>" <refdoc at gmx.net
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regarding how to find source:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In our newer and better modules a source is given in the
>>>>>>>>>> conf file. But sometimes that link is now dead.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and
>>>>>>>>>> weird autocorrects.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [sword-devel] Modules, Tracker - some remarks
>>>>>>>>>> From: refdoc at gmx.net <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: sword-devel
>>>>>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi to all
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1) I am so pleased and grateful for all the activity
>>>>>>>>>> checking and testing modules wrt issues mentioned on
>>>>>>>>>> the tracker
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2) There is a substantial minority of modules we do
>>>>>>>>>> have source texts for (around 100) and I hold the key
>>>>>>>>>> for them. They can not be shared to anyone, usually,
>>>>>>>>>> as they tend to be not public domain texts. But the
>>>>>>>>>> upshot for them is, I feel responsible in a direct
>>>>>>>>>> way for them and take care of much in these weeks. So
>>>>>>>>>> if you see me commenting on a module as the matter
>>>>>>>>>> being in work, just move on , as it is in hand.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3) There is a majority of texts, and some of them are
>>>>>>>>>> very old in terms of CrossWire and we need to find
>>>>>>>>>> sources for them, because we do not hold them. So, if
>>>>>>>>>> you do not see me commenting that things are in hand,
>>>>>>>>>> the module clearly requires a rebuilt and you want to
>>>>>>>>>> push this actively forward, go and find the source.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 4) How to find sources:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many public domain texts have been pushed forward and
>>>>>>>>>> backward between projects since the start of the
>>>>>>>>>> internet, are in a poor state and badly or not at all
>>>>>>>>>> marked up, forced into KJV versification , or
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes even chopped up in order to support
>>>>>>>>>> sectarian views. Commonly for important texts though
>>>>>>>>>> there exists somewhere someone who has decided to fix
>>>>>>>>>> things. People who do try and fix things make this
>>>>>>>>>> often very clear. Others refer/defer to them. It pays
>>>>>>>>>> to get into direct contact with them to establish a
>>>>>>>>>> link and maybe even let them produce OSIS or USFM for
>>>>>>>>>> our use. We certainly always want to feed back any
>>>>>>>>>> and all improvements we make to Mark Up etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 5)You find good authoritative source, put at least
>>>>>>>>>> the link underneath the tracker and explain shortly
>>>>>>>>>> why this is in your view the best source,
>>>>>>>>>> particularly if there is a big choice. If you want to
>>>>>>>>>> go and start working on a module, even better
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again to all!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos
>>>>>>>>>> and weird autocorrects.
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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