[sword-devel] Modules, Tracker - some remarks

Cyrille lafricain79 at gmail.com
Tue Dec 4 11:54:23 MST 2018



Le 04/12/2018 à 17:33, David Haslam a écrit :
> Thanks for responding Michael. 
>
> I’ve not done any work on the CPDV other than module analysis. 
>
>
> Cyrille, 
> I cannot post to this mailing list any useful list of projects for
> which I have obtained USFM or OSIS files.
Yes, ok maybe in private? We can continue to speak about it and git repo
for it.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David 
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 16:12, Michael H <cmahte at gmail.com
> <mailto:cmahte at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Cyrille, 
>>
>> I have sources for CPDV.  I've been working with Ron Conte early this
>> year from January - May. They are complete except for the phrasing of
>> poetic books.  However, I'm not working on them right now. I'll
>> contact you off list. 
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:25 AM Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     Le 03/12/2018 à 20:15, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>     It's generally safe to assume that taking the initiative to work
>>>     towards a module update or new module release is unlikely to
>>>     duplicate work already started by another volunteer.
>>>
>>     I just ask if I can work on CPDV because I didn't have answer
>>     about sources. Just to be sure you don't have osis or usfm files.
>>     Is it possible to publish a list of the sources of all module you
>>     have? Or it's not possible?
>>>     Once you've dived in and got deep into the details, the fact
>>>     that you may need to ask a technical question about module
>>>     development in that specific context, this will alert CrossWire
>>>     about what you're aiming to accomplish. 
>>>
>>>     Finding by coincidence that two volunteers have independently
>>>     taken the initiative for the same task is such a rare event that
>>>     I can't think of an instance when this has happened. Even so, it
>>>     often succeeds better when a pair of CrossWire volunteers choose
>>>     to work together on such a project. "Two are better than one" as
>>>     the writer of Ecclesiastes taught. 
>>>
>>>     Nobody needs to ask CrossWire for permission to pick up a task
>>>     in modules and run with it.
>>>     As long as all the requirements for module submissions are met,
>>>     it's unlikely that any other CrossWire volunteer will object to
>>>     your active involvement. 
>>>
>>>     Module updates for those where a text source is specified in the
>>>     .conf file may require getting the owner of the text to become
>>>     involved in making corrections to the text that they host.
>>>
>>>     Best regards,
>>>
>>>     David 
>>>
>>>     Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 18:46, Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com
>>>     <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>     As we don't know if a module enter in the first case (not
>>>>     maintain) or the second (retain copies of source text files), 
>>>>     you can understand that the question about source is relevant :)
>>>>     Maybe you can give us a date about when the module team retains
>>>>     copies? After that it will be easier to know if you have or no
>>>>     sources.
>>>>     I understand also something about a collaborator who leave the
>>>>     module team? I am not informed about this.
>>>>     And maybe the gitlab private repo will be really help full. We
>>>>     spoke already about it.
>>>>     The problem of source is really important because if we can't
>>>>     access to it, we can't help you :) Is it imaginable to create
>>>>     this kind of gitlab repo with all the source you have already?
>>>>     If someone want to check you can give him access, even temporary.
>>>>
>>>>     I'm just looking for solution.
>>>>
>>>>     Le 03/12/2018 à 17:14, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>>>     This has been stated on numerous occasions.
>>>>>
>>>>>     *CrossWire as a Society does not maintain the authoritative
>>>>>     source text for modules except for very few cases, namely the
>>>>>     KJV & KJVA modules.*
>>>>>
>>>>>     Individual volunteers may indeed have [had] access to working
>>>>>     copies of source texts for some modules as part of past or
>>>>>     ongoing work in progress.
>>>>>
>>>>>     However, when such module issues were reported, this is
>>>>>     generally because the reporting was done in the role of a user
>>>>>     making observations from module testing or analysis -  rather
>>>>>     than as a module developer and/or source text collaborator.
>>>>>
>>>>>     That a certain volunteer went AWOL (having left CrossWire and
>>>>>     in effect cut himself off from further contact) this simply
>>>>>     means that his knowledge, skills, /ad hoc/ working scripts,
>>>>>     customised software tools and file resources are no longer
>>>>>     available to other volunteers. The trail went cold. We simply
>>>>>     have to begin again from scratch on these issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Now of course, there are volunteers such as myself and several
>>>>>     others that are active in source text development
>>>>>     collaboration with third parties.
>>>>>     This enables us to provide a benefit to those not directly
>>>>>     involved in Bible translation activities in the various
>>>>>     well-established Bible agencies and societies.
>>>>>     i.e. Because such people are often using something other than
>>>>>     ParaTExt (or Bibledit) to maintain their source text.
>>>>>     We have various software skills and some tools that can assist
>>>>>     such providers get their source text into a format (USFM & OSIS)
>>>>>     that is more amenable for electronic publishing in forms
>>>>>     suitable for Bible software in general and including SWORD
>>>>>     modules for distribution by CrossWire.
>>>>>
>>>>>     For the present "modules team", in projects that are likely to
>>>>>     go through more than one iteration, every effort is being made
>>>>>     to retain copies of source text files.
>>>>>     But keeping a working copy is not the same as maintaining an
>>>>>     authoritative source. We're back to ownership, provenance and
>>>>>     version control matters.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Generally, for copyrighted works, these should be kept in a
>>>>>     private repository, and only shared with others where
>>>>>     collaboration is essential.
>>>>>     Even so, that still leaves a lot of collaboration work where
>>>>>     the files for work in progress are probably stored only on the
>>>>>     individual volunteer's computer rather than in accessible
>>>>>     cloud services such as GitHub or GitLab, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>     David
>>>>>
>>>>>     Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>>>>
>>>>>     ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>>>>     On Monday, 3 December 2018 15:01, Cyrille
>>>>>     <lafricain79 at gmail.com> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Le 03/12/2018 à 14:45, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>>>>>     Posting comments on multiple issues that are several years
>>>>>>>     old that simply ask questions like "Do you have the source?"
>>>>>>>     don't get us anywhere forward soon.
>>>>>>>     They can even become a distraction in the originator's email
>>>>>>>     notifications.
>>>>>>     Ok I understand, but when you (or the team) build the modules
>>>>>>     you had some source no? Where are this sources? Didn't you
>>>>>>     keep the osis files or usfm file when you had it? Just CPDV
>>>>>>     as example. I would like to be sure nobody keeps usfm or osis
>>>>>>     file before working on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Some of these old issues were originally added by me as long
>>>>>>>     ago as 2011 when CrossWire still had someone responsible for
>>>>>>>     building the original modules.
>>>>>>>     They were added on the assumption that this person would
>>>>>>>     have known the module history and was in a position to do
>>>>>>>     all the necessary work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     That he went AWOL and these issues are still open
>>>>>>>     essentially means that to make any progress now, someone
>>>>>>>     will need to champion each module, do the research, find the
>>>>>>>     latest source text, do the conversion to OSIS, rebuild and
>>>>>>>     test the module, and check that the issue is then fixed,
>>>>>>>     before submitting to the Modules Team.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     I will not be adding replies to new comments unless I have
>>>>>>>     new information to hand that was unavailable when each issue
>>>>>>>     were created.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>>>>>>     On Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:21, Cyrille
>>>>>>>     <lafricain79 at gmail.com> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Please Peter, can you post even if you don't have the
>>>>>>>>     source? It will be easier, because I post on multiples
>>>>>>>>     issues, I don't remember exactly which...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Le 02/12/2018 à 18:54, DM Smith a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>     The Internet Wayback Machine is useful for dead URLs. I’ve
>>>>>>>>>     used it to find resources no longer available and to make
>>>>>>>>>     contact w people. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     — DM Smith
>>>>>>>>>     From my phone. Brief. Weird autocorrections. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     On Dec 2, 2018, at 10:47 AM, "refdoc at gmx.net
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>" <refdoc at gmx.net
>>>>>>>>>     <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Regarding how to find source:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     In our newer and better modules a source is given in the
>>>>>>>>>>     conf file. But sometimes that link is now dead.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and
>>>>>>>>>>     weird autocorrects.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>>>>     Subject: [sword-devel] Modules, Tracker - some remarks
>>>>>>>>>>     From: refdoc at gmx.net <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>
>>>>>>>>>>     To: sword-devel
>>>>>>>>>>     CC:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Hi to all
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         1) I am so pleased and grateful for all the activity
>>>>>>>>>>         checking and testing modules wrt issues mentioned on
>>>>>>>>>>         the tracker
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         2) There is a substantial minority of modules we do
>>>>>>>>>>         have source texts for (around 100) and I hold the key
>>>>>>>>>>         for them. They can not be shared to anyone, usually,
>>>>>>>>>>         as they tend to be not public domain texts. But the
>>>>>>>>>>         upshot for them is, I feel responsible in a direct
>>>>>>>>>>         way for them and take care of much in these weeks. So
>>>>>>>>>>         if you see me commenting on a module as the matter
>>>>>>>>>>         being in work, just move on , as it is in hand.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         3) There is a majority of texts, and some of them are
>>>>>>>>>>         very old in terms of CrossWire and we need to find
>>>>>>>>>>         sources for them, because we do not hold them. So, if
>>>>>>>>>>         you do not see me commenting that things are in hand,
>>>>>>>>>>         the module clearly requires a rebuilt and you want to
>>>>>>>>>>         push this actively forward, go and find the source.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         4) How to find sources:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Many public domain texts have been pushed forward and
>>>>>>>>>>         backward between projects since the start of the
>>>>>>>>>>         internet, are in a poor state and badly or not at all
>>>>>>>>>>         marked up, forced into KJV versification , or
>>>>>>>>>>         sometimes even chopped up in order to support
>>>>>>>>>>         sectarian views. Commonly for important texts though
>>>>>>>>>>         there exists somewhere someone who has decided to fix
>>>>>>>>>>         things. People who do try and fix things make this
>>>>>>>>>>         often very clear. Others refer/defer to them. It pays
>>>>>>>>>>         to get into direct contact with them to establish a
>>>>>>>>>>         link and maybe even let them produce OSIS or USFM for
>>>>>>>>>>         our use. We certainly always want to feed back any
>>>>>>>>>>         and all improvements we make to Mark Up etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         5)You find good authoritative source, put at least
>>>>>>>>>>         the link underneath the tracker and explain shortly
>>>>>>>>>>         why this is in your view the best source,
>>>>>>>>>>         particularly if there is a big choice. If you want to
>>>>>>>>>>         go and start working on a module, even better
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Thanks again to all!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos
>>>>>>>>>>         and weird autocorrects.
>>>>>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
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