[sword-devel] Modules, Tracker - some remarks

Tue Dec 4 08:24:00 MST 2018


Le 03/12/2018 à 20:15, David Haslam a écrit :
> It's generally safe to assume that taking the initiative to work
> towards a module update or new module release is unlikely to duplicate
> work already started by another volunteer.
>
I just ask if I can work on CPDV because I didn't have answer about
sources. Just to be sure you don't have osis or usfm files. Is it
possible to publish a list of the sources of all module you have? Or
it's not possible?
> Once you've dived in and got deep into the details, the fact that you
> may need to ask a technical question about module development in that
> specific context, this will alert CrossWire about what you're aiming
> to accomplish. 
>
> Finding by coincidence that two volunteers have independently taken
> the initiative for the same task is such a rare event that I can't
> think of an instance when this has happened. Even so, it often
> succeeds better when a pair of CrossWire volunteers choose to work
> together on such a project. "Two are better than one" as the writer of
> Ecclesiastes taught. 
>
> Nobody needs to ask CrossWire for permission to pick up a task in
> modules and run with it.
> As long as all the requirements for module submissions are met, it's
> unlikely that any other CrossWire volunteer will object to your active
> involvement. 
>
> Module updates for those where a text source is specified in the .conf
> file may require getting the owner of the text to become involved in
> making corrections to the text that they host.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David 
>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 18:46, Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com
> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> As we don't know if a module enter in the first case (not maintain)
>> or the second (retain copies of source text files),  you can
>> understand that the question about source is relevant :)
>> Maybe you can give us a date about when the module team retains
>> copies? After that it will be easier to know if you have or no sources.
>> I understand also something about a collaborator who leave the module
>> team? I am not informed about this.
>> And maybe the gitlab private repo will be really help full. We spoke
>> already about it.
>> The problem of source is really important because if we can't access
>> to it, we can't help you :) Is it imaginable to create this kind of
>> gitlab repo with all the source you have already? If someone want to
>> check you can give him access, even temporary.
>>
>> I'm just looking for solution.
>>
>> Le 03/12/2018 à 17:14, David Haslam a écrit :
>>> This has been stated on numerous occasions.
>>>
>>> *CrossWire as a Society does not maintain the authoritative source
>>> text for modules except for very few cases, namely the KJV & KJVA
>>> modules.*
>>>
>>> Individual volunteers may indeed have [had] access to working copies
>>> of source texts for some modules as part of past or ongoing work in
>>> progress.
>>>
>>> However, when such module issues were reported, this is generally
>>> because the reporting was done in the role of a user making
>>> observations from module testing or analysis -  rather than as a
>>> module developer and/or source text collaborator.
>>>
>>> That a certain volunteer went AWOL (having left CrossWire and in
>>> effect cut himself off from further contact) this simply means that
>>> his knowledge, skills, /ad hoc/ working scripts, customised software
>>> tools and file resources are no longer available to other
>>> volunteers. The trail went cold. We simply have to begin again from
>>> scratch on these issues.
>>>
>>> Now of course, there are volunteers such as myself and several
>>> others that are active in source text development collaboration with
>>> third parties.
>>> This enables us to provide a benefit to those not directly involved
>>> in Bible translation activities in the various well-established
>>> Bible agencies and societies.
>>> i.e. Because such people are often using something other than
>>> ParaTExt (or Bibledit) to maintain their source text.
>>> We have various software skills and some tools that can assist such
>>> providers get their source text into a format (USFM & OSIS)
>>> that is more amenable for electronic publishing in forms suitable
>>> for Bible software in general and including SWORD modules for
>>> distribution by CrossWire.
>>>
>>> For the present "modules team", in projects that are likely to go
>>> through more than one iteration, every effort is being made to
>>> retain copies of source text files.
>>> But keeping a working copy is not the same as maintaining an
>>> authoritative source. We're back to ownership, provenance and
>>> version control matters.
>>>
>>> Generally, for copyrighted works, these should be kept in a private
>>> repository, and only shared with others where collaboration is
>>> essential.
>>> Even so, that still leaves a lot of collaboration work where the
>>> files for work in progress are probably stored only on the
>>> individual volunteer's computer rather than in accessible cloud
>>> services such as GitHub or GitLab, etc.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>> On Monday, 3 December 2018 15:01, Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 03/12/2018 à 14:45, David Haslam a écrit :
>>>>> Posting comments on multiple issues that are several years old
>>>>> that simply ask questions like "Do you have the source?" don't get
>>>>> us anywhere forward soon.
>>>>> They can even become a distraction in the originator's email
>>>>> notifications.
>>>> Ok I understand, but when you (or the team) build the modules you
>>>> had some source no? Where are this sources? Didn't you keep the
>>>> osis files or usfm file when you had it? Just CPDV as example. I
>>>> would like to be sure nobody keeps usfm or osis file before working
>>>> on it.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of these old issues were originally added by me as long ago
>>>>> as 2011 when CrossWire still had someone responsible for building
>>>>> the original modules.
>>>>> They were added on the assumption that this person would have
>>>>> known the module history and was in a position to do all the
>>>>> necessary work.
>>>>>
>>>>> That he went AWOL and these issues are still open essentially
>>>>> means that to make any progress now, someone will need to champion
>>>>> each module, do the research, find the latest source text, do the
>>>>> conversion to OSIS, rebuild and test the module, and check that
>>>>> the issue is then fixed, before submitting to the Modules Team.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not be adding replies to new comments unless I have new
>>>>> information to hand that was unavailable when each issue were created.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>>>>
>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>>>> On Sunday, 2 December 2018 19:21, Cyrille <lafricain79 at gmail.com>
>>>>> <mailto:lafricain79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Please Peter, can you post even if you don't have the source? It
>>>>>> will be easier, because I post on multiples issues, I don't
>>>>>> remember exactly which...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 02/12/2018 à 18:54, DM Smith a écrit :
>>>>>>> The Internet Wayback Machine is useful for dead URLs. I’ve used
>>>>>>> it to find resources no longer available and to make contact w
>>>>>>> people. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> — DM Smith
>>>>>>> From my phone. Brief. Weird autocorrections. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2018, at 10:47 AM, "refdoc at gmx.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>" <refdoc at gmx.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regarding how to find source:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In our newer and better modules a source is given in the conf
>>>>>>>> file. But sometimes that link is now dead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
>>>>>>>> autocorrects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>> Subject: [sword-devel] Modules, Tracker - some remarks
>>>>>>>> From: refdoc at gmx.net <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>
>>>>>>>> To: sword-devel
>>>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Hi to all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     1) I am so pleased and grateful for all the activity
>>>>>>>>     checking and testing modules wrt issues mentioned on the
>>>>>>>>     tracker
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     2) There is a substantial minority of modules we do have
>>>>>>>>     source texts for (around 100) and I hold the key for them.
>>>>>>>>     They can not be shared to anyone, usually, as they tend to
>>>>>>>>     be not public domain texts. But the upshot for them is, I
>>>>>>>>     feel responsible in a direct way for them and take care of
>>>>>>>>     much in these weeks. So if you see me commenting on a
>>>>>>>>     module as the matter being in work, just move on , as it is
>>>>>>>>     in hand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     3) There is a majority of texts, and some of them are very
>>>>>>>>     old in terms of CrossWire and we need to find sources for
>>>>>>>>     them, because we do not hold them. So, if you do not see me
>>>>>>>>     commenting that things are in hand, the module clearly
>>>>>>>>     requires a rebuilt and you want to push this actively
>>>>>>>>     forward, go and find the source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     4) How to find sources:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Many public domain texts have been pushed forward and
>>>>>>>>     backward between projects since the start of the internet,
>>>>>>>>     are in a poor state and badly or not at all marked up,
>>>>>>>>     forced into KJV versification , or sometimes even chopped
>>>>>>>>     up in order to support sectarian views. Commonly for
>>>>>>>>     important texts though there exists somewhere someone who
>>>>>>>>     has decided to fix things. People who do try and fix things
>>>>>>>>     make this often very clear. Others refer/defer to them. It
>>>>>>>>     pays to get into direct contact with them to establish a
>>>>>>>>     link and maybe even let them produce OSIS or USFM for our
>>>>>>>>     use. We certainly always want to feed back any and all
>>>>>>>>     improvements we make to Mark Up etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     5)You find good authoritative source, put at least the link
>>>>>>>>     underneath the tracker and explain shortly why this is in
>>>>>>>>     your view the best source, particularly if there is a big
>>>>>>>>     choice. If you want to go and start working on a module,
>>>>>>>>     even better
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Thanks again to all!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and
>>>>>>>>     weird autocorrects.
>>>>>>>>     _______________________________________________
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