[sword-devel] CrossWire's KJV

Mon Feb 1 06:38:02 MST 2016

See below.

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 5:42 AM, David Haslam <dfhmch at googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> I sent the following to DM earlier today, and I may as well share it, since
> the point can be generalised.
> 
> Subject: Klopsch
> 
> A first edition of a work isn't necessarily the most definitive.
> Consider Calvin's Institutes for a very pronounced example.
> 
> We ought to consider the possibility that second or later editions of his
> Red Letter Bible had revisions correcting at least such things as printers
> errors in the first. Maybe even more?

The eBay listing gave it as a first edition, but it is not. The book is clearly a Klopsch edition (none of them have his name in them). It is published by a different publisher than the first printer.

The red-letter text was not the work of one person, but a team of scholars. See: https://www.crossway.org/blog/2006/03/red-letter-origin <https://www.crossway.org/blog/2006/03/red-letter-origin>

While Klopsch also marked portions of the OT in red, including cross-references in the margin, the edition I have does not have cross-references. I haven’t yet found any OT RLT in my copy.

> 
> It was only 16 years between the Klopsch 1901 & the Old Scofield 1917 Bible.
> Did they ever meet? An intriguing possibility.
> 
> I'm therefore not so convinced that Klopsch 1901 should be the definitive
> reference standard for red letter markup in our KJV module. Certainly, we
> should take note of the differences, but the Scofield may be more definitive
> of the mature considerations from reader feedback after 1901.

I did a careful examination and three way comparison of the Klopsch, Old Scofield and our module before I came to that conclusion. I found a few differences and one printers error. My conclusion was that we could use the Klopsch as the basis. I had compared our module to Old Scofield, which I thought I had done well enough, but apparently not. (Note that Klopsch used italics, but we’re not interested in that.) The only one I take issue with is Rev 1:8, but there is no agreement across the different RLT bibles as to what the words of Christ are, so my opinion is not material.

Here is the results of that comparison:

Here is a list of differences that I found (and I recheck these against the Old Scofield, which I thought I had done well enough before):
Mark 14:72. Is not red. That is Peter recounting, not Jesus directly saying.
CrossWire:
And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.     
Klopsch/Old Scofield:
And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.     

Luke 5:14 starting with “tell no man:”
CrossWire:
And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.    
Klopsch/Old Scofield:
And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.    

Luke 6:5 doesn’t include “That”
CrossWire:
And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Klopsch/Old Scofield:
And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luke 8:45 doesn’t include second “Who touched me?”
CrossWire:
And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who        touched me?
Klopsch/Old Scofield:
And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who        touched me?

Luke 11:2, starts with “When ye pray, say, “
CrossWire:
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
Klopsch/Old Scofield:
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Luke 11:5 includes “And he said unto them, “ However, unlike the rest of the WoC, it is not italicized. I think this is a publisher’s error that should not be propagated.
CrossWire/Old Scofield:
And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;
Klopsch: (I think this is a typesetting error as the first part is not italic!)
And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;
Here is an image of this from my dropbox (It will be there for a while, but maybe not months from now):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11788084/2016-01-29%2007.03.20.jpg

Rev 1:8 is not red
CrossWire/Old Scofield:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Klopsch:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 22:7 only “Behold I come quickly:”
CrossWire:
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Klopsch/Old Scofield:
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

> 
> The period in view is commensurate with how long CrossWire has had a KJV
> module, a century later.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/CrossWire-s-KJV-tp4655928p4655934.html
> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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