[sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD translations)

Wed Nov 7 20:56:12 MST 2012

Peter, you are entitled to your opinion.

Clearly I have no commercial interest in offering this module to the list
for QA.  Clearly the translators who have offered their work to DJD did so
in an academic / research framework (making them available to the broader
audience), and their translations are often reused and cited outside of
DJD.  I am not passing off their work untransformed or as my own.

Philosophically, I find only those in publishing want to copyright
everything because they have a direct financial interest in restricting
ideas for financial compensation.  But intellectual property, especially in
academia is NOT THE SAME AS copyright!  Those in academia understand the
broader benefit of sharing intellectual property for the advancement of
research to build off the work of others and to have others build off one's
work.

I've freely made a derivative work based upon publicly available
translations which have come from a body of academic work (translators
credited).  I'm not deriving any academic or commercial benefit from this,
and I do it to further (biblical) study. My conscience is clear despite
innuendos of plagiarism.  So, you and I will simply have to agree to
disagree ...

~A

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Peter von Kaehne <refdoc at gmx.net> wrote:

> Your two responses show that your understanding of the terms you use is
> poor and flawed in all crucial points.
>
> While the translators, if asked nicely might well agree to us/you
> publishing a module, only someone insane takes on an academic publisher
> with a deliberate breach of copyright.
>
> There is occasionally mileage in creating something prior to show off when
> coming round to discuss copyrights and permissions, but, as I said, this is
> only occasionally so.
>
> I am not going to bore you or the list with definitions.
>
> Peter
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 17:21:13 -0500
> > Von: Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com>
> > An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> > Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD
>      translations)
>
> > Forgive me.  I forgot to address your question about what constitutes
> > 'academic'.
> >
> > Dead Sea Scroll translations to date, have been translated by academics,
> > holding academic positions in academic institutions. The translations
> have
> > been (and are being) done for academic purposes, published in academic
> > publications, such as the one entitled 'Discoveries in the Judean Desert'
> > (At least, I assume you don't see the production of DJD as a 'commercial
> > venture').  Dead Sea Scroll 'research', is not a commercial venture (even
> > if some of its spin-off efforts are).
> >
> > Even in the copyright case of Professor Elisha Qimron's, the
> > Israelisupreme court rules that the
> > scrolls must be kept available for non-commercial purposes.
> >
> > Therefore, when translations are made publicly available in publications
> > such as 'Discoveries in the Judean Desert: ISBN13: 9780199566662, use of
> > those translations for non-commercial purposes clearly falls under 'fair
> > use' (as courts in both Canada and the US frequently assert)
> >
> > ~A
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Peter, I assume you understand the difference between intellectual
> > > property and copyright.  I also assume you understand the 'derivative
> > work'
> > > principles of 'fair use' and 'transformativeness'.
> > >
> > > Within science and academia, authors may cite other authors work
> without
> > > permission as long as they provide credit (hence the whole business of
> > > citations) else science and common bodies of knowledge would not
> > progress
> > > for the sake of humanity.  This is also why copyrighting 'science' or
> > > 'academic results' is generally frowned upon.
> > >
> > > The Dead Sea scrolls are not themselves copyrightable.  Their
> > > translations, being the product of largly publically funded academic
> > work,
> > > falls under the category of intellectual property.  As long as I cite
> > who
> > > did the original translation and transform the work significantly from
> > its
> > > originally published form (which I've done) I'm well within 'fair use'
> > > however much you protest.  Moreover, when 'fair use' is for academic or
> > > scientific purposes, rather than commercial purposes, the court err on
> > the
> > > side of free and open.
> > >
> > > Besides, you're not being any kind of spoil sport since you're entitled
> > to
> > > your opinion and I'm really nor seeking your permission to do anything.
> > My
> > > offer is open to the community.
> > >
> > > With the greatest respect.
> > > ~A
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, November 7, 2012, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 07/11/12 15:52, Andrew Thule wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> It is a derivative work from academic translations, but for now treat
> > as
> > >>> copyrighted, until I resolve the license issue.  With the exception
> of
> > >>> Elisha Qimron's translations (by the Israeli Supreme Court no less),
> > all
> > >>> other DSS translations are treated as academic or scientific
> > knowledge,
> > >>> and so free for use, subject to citation.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> I hate being a spoilsport (and I think I get form in that...), but I
> do
> > >> not think this will cut it. What is "academic" in these circumstances?
> > >> Unless the country the translations have been made somehow PDs all
> > produce
> > >> by publicly funded universities (unlikely, TBH) then these texts will
> > be
> > >> subject to the ordinary rules as usual - no publication unless
> > permissions
> > >> are obtained.
> > >>
> > >> Now, I think it would be great to gain permission, and academic
> sources
> > >> are often very kind + generous with these, but please be careful not
> to
> > >> assume.
> > >>
> > >> Peter
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ______________________________**_________________
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> > >>
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> > >>
> > >
>
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