[sword-devel] proposed patch: adding n=X marker content to footnotes and xrefs

Troy A. Griffitts scribe at crosswire.org
Sun Feb 12 14:15:23 MST 2012


Just a brief note:

On 02/12/2012 10:01 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
 > You don't think publishers care whether what you put on the screen bears
 > an excruciatingly close resemblance to what they encoded in the content
 > with which you have been entrusted?
 > Just...wow.

I don't believe that everything encoded by the publisher is intended by 
the publisher to be displayed to the user in all forms of display.

If I was printing from the data file, I would use the encoded labels.

Should strongs numbers always be displayed to the user?  Well, I only 
display them when the user asks to see them.  And then, often I don't 
even display the number itself.

We obviously have examples of publishers on both sides:

a team building linux tools for their internal translators at Wycliffe 
want much visual control of their modules.

Lockman has told us that much of this is up to how we feel displays best 
to the end user in the mode with which we display their content.

(I presume the mention of Lockman doesn't ease your riled state)



On 02/12/2012 10:01 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> "Troy A. Griffitts"<scribe at crosswire.org>  writes:
>> Again, I am not arguing against displaying publisher provided labels.
>> I am arguing against forcing all frontends to display publisher
>> provided labels.
> If I were an author/publisher, I would walk away from Sword on that
> basis alone.  I'm not kidding one iota.
> I (metaphorical "I," i.e. the publisher) produce content that I expect
> you (editorial "you," i.e. Sword apps) to render properly.  And you (the
> app author) are telling me that you'll decide somewhat randomly whether
> to include (some part of) _my_ content in _your_ display.  Um, what?
> Exactly who do you think you are, presuming to make such decisions about
> _my_ content?  I (myself) already worry that we don't provide ways to
> get e.g. section headings to display exactly as publishers want them.
> Notice well that Greg has made it clear that Wycliffe _very nearly did_
> walk away from Sword on such a basis alone; that they operate using only
> one Sword app they consider acceptable; and it's well worth mention that
> Wycliffe is the single biggest publisher that does anything with Sword.
> There are currently 46 Bibles whose About says, "Text provided to the
> CrossWire Bible Society by Wycliffe Bible Translators."  No other
> publisher comes close.
> (Xiphos uses bold [only] for section headings.  bible.org, for one,
> publishes its content mostly using italic headings, with extensive
> exceptions in e.g. Song due to attempting to identify text speakers.
> Browser screenshot of bible.org's content:
> http://karl.kleinpaste.org/xiphos/NET-Ruth.1-headings-italic.png
> This echoes their print publication.  I also worry about *n/*x for the
> same reason, and I don't deny that Xiphos' display of "*n23" isn't
> right, either, but as I've said before, my implementation of the
> post-process step was just to tack the n=X content onto the *n/*x that
> has been habit in the filters for a decade or more, long pre-dating
> myself, which at least got n=X out where it belongs, according to
> publishers' evident intent.)
> You don't think publishers care whether what you put on the screen bears
> an excruciatingly close resemblance to what they encoded in the content
> with which you have been entrusted?
> Just...wow.
>> As a scholar I would reference: Document, Work, "Footnote concerning
>> <catch word>"
> Personally, I strongly dislike the hokeyness of that.  It's dreadful.
> Footnote markers arose as a habit in publishing and especially
> typography _because_ of the hokeyness of that sort of ham-handed
> reference.  Try publishing a CS paper in any journal anywhere using
> that.  Your paper will be rejected out of hand, for not adhering to The
> Chicago Manual of Style.
> --karl
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