[sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed?
Pypsik Pypsik
pypsichok at yahoo.com
Mon Mar 28 09:41:29 MST 2011
Chris,
per our discussion via e-mails, there were TWO reasons for removal of RST.
Reason 1:
RST module having KJV
versification - meaning that in a printed copy of Russian Bible some verses are combined, where in KJV they are split into two separate verses, etc. Sounds like some front-ends crash and NOT able to present/consume RST
versification.
So, for years the RST Bible that was out there, used the KJV versification with no problems. I've used it in Windows Sword, iPod Touch, Android phone with no problems.
Per our latest correspondence you've told me the following:
" 1) The KJV and
its versification system are in the public domain, due to
their age. The Synodal Bible and its versification system are also in
the public domain, due to their age.
The act of mapping the Synodal
Bible onto the KJV versification system
is a complex procedure that was done
by hand, and the company that
commissioned it claims copyright."
Yes, both are in public domain, but conversion from Synodal to KJV, can't it be done with something like this of a command with utils out there?
osis2mod rsto RST_My_Bible.xml -z -v KJV
I'm at a loss as to why this "conversion" would be copyrighted. It's a relatively a simple process. If anyone can please explain, shed more light on this, I'd greatly appreciate it...
Reason 2:
Strong Numbers being present in the RST that was removed. Per our discussion you've mentioned:
"Strong's numbers aren't themselves copyrighted, but their assignment
to particular words in a text generally requires hand tagging. The
company that
commissioned the Strong's tagging claims copyright on them.
Further, the company that holds copyright on this particular Synodal
Bible text is not interested in licensing it."
I'd like to know WHO is this company, perhaps I or others can try to contact them and work thru this and reach an agreement. Some of the apps that use RST module out there with Strong Numbers have this line:
"Strong's coding copyrighted by Bob Jones University, 1996"
So is it a matter of contacting BJU (I'll fly out there if I have to!) or the russian app owners and ask permission?
Again, brethren, what are you thoughts on this item/reason #2?
---------------
In summary, I wholeheartedly agree...removing the RST module and leaving Slavic speaking users without any FULL russian Bible is not a good thing at
all.
What I don't get, is:
After years of RST being out there, (with thousands of mistakes of spaces missing between words..which we've set out to correct)...if there were formal/informal complaints lodged against Crosswire that we are in fact violating #2 reason, why have we not been given a chance to review those complaints, STRIP OUT Strong Numbers for the time being, as we work on some agreement and have non-Strong RST Bible out there in the meantime?
However, contrary to this, no recourse or chance to correct was presented to us, instead...** poooof ** and the Bible disappeared. In all due respect, this is NOT how this should have transpired and how WE should operate.
Personally, I agree that Strong numbers maybe an issue, but KJV versification...?
In regards to RST in experimental repo, the last I knew, the one out there is old and dull, and doesn't have the corrections.
For that very reason,
Wjatscheslaw has submitted a corrected RST a year ago. My and other folks inquiry as to the status of this correct RST - resulted in the existing RST-with-mistakes being removed. But, submitted corrected RST....is a whole different story...for another day....
for the time being....
What needs to be done get this RST-with-spaces-missing that was out there for years back in the Sword Repository..so that users have something!?? Remove Strong numbers?
Please Chris, Troy, Peter, David, anyone....let me know.
Thank you and God Bless~
- Pypsik
--- On Mon, 3/28/11, sword-devel-request at crosswire.org <sword-devel-request at crosswire.org> wrote:
From: sword-devel-request at crosswire.org <sword-devel-request at crosswire.org>
Subject: sword-devel Digest, Vol 84, Issue 21
To:
sword-devel at crosswire.org
Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 2:49 PM
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
removed?
(Pypsik Pypsik)
2. Re: Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed?
(Peter von Kaehne)
3. Re: Has the Russian
Synodal Translation been removed?
(Konstantin Maslyuk)
4. Re: Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed?
(Peter von Kaehne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:13:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pypsik Pypsik <pypsichok at yahoo.com>
To: sword-devel at crosswire.org
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
removed?
Message-ID: <386246.54824.qm at web45706.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Chris,
?
I've sent you an e-mail?with request for more information?in regards to?the reasons why the RST was removed from the Sword repository.
?
Although I'm not the original submitter of RST module, however I'd like to do what it takes to get it back in the repository.
?
Please let me know.
?
Thank you and God Bless~
- Pypsik
--- On Sat, 3/26/11, sword-devel-request at crosswire.org <sword-devel-request at crosswire.org> wrote:
From: sword-devel-request at crosswire.org <sword-devel-request at crosswire.org>
Subject: sword-devel Digest, Vol 84, Issue 20
To: sword-devel at crosswire.org
Date: Saturday, March 26, 2011, 7:00 PM
Send sword-devel mailing list submissions to
??? sword-devel at crosswire.org
To subscribe or
unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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You can reach the
person managing the list at
??? sword-devel-owner at crosswire.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of sword-devel digest..."
Today's Topics:
???1. Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed? (Martin Denham)
???2. Re: Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed?
? ? ? (Chris Little)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 19:18:28 +0000
From: Martin Denham <mjdenham at gmail.com>
To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum"
??? <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject:
[sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
??? removed?
Message-ID:
??? <AANLkTikscjMaxfSbq3q-JEDpkbpUHbEE9ugouTun2LjD at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
The Russian Synodal Translation has disappeared from the And Bible download
list but I am wondering if there is a general problem because it also seems
to be missing from the CrossWire module list here:
http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles unless I
am looking in the wrong place.
Thanks
Martin
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 00:58:30 -0700
From: Chris Little <chrislit at crosswire.org>
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
??? removed?
Message-ID: <4D8D9CA6.2030007 at crosswire.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Yes,
unfortunately it was discovered that this module contained
copyrighted content. The non-copyrighted portions remain available in
the RusSynodal module that was intended to replace this in any case.
--Chris
On 3/25/2011 12:18 PM, Martin Denham wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Russian Synodal Translation has disappeared from the And Bible
> download list but I am wondering if there is a general problem because
> it also seems to be missing from the CrossWire module list here:
> http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles unless
> I am looking in the wrong place.
>
> Thanks
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:36:26 +0200
From: "Peter von Kaehne" <refdoc at gmx.net>
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
removed?
Message-ID: <20110328093626.11110 at gmx.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
--------
Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:13:27 -0700 (PDT)
> Von: Pypsik Pypsik <pypsichok at yahoo.com>
> An: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed?
> Chris,
> ?
> I've sent you an e-mail?with request for more information?in regards
> to?the reasons why the RST was removed from the Sword repository.
> ?
Lookig at teh module I would think it is the Strong numbering and the morphology. Unless the text itself had been updated.
But all this is a guess. For the strongs we have of course another NT module of the RST.
Peter
> Although I'm not the original submitter of RST module, however I'd like to
> do
what it takes to get it back in the repository.
> ?
> Please let me know.
> ?
> Thank you and God Bless~
>
> - Pypsik
>
> --- On Sat, 3/26/11, sword-devel-request at crosswire.org
> <sword-devel-request at crosswire.org> wrote:
>
>
> From: sword-devel-request at crosswire.org
> <sword-devel-request at crosswire.org>
> Subject: sword-devel Digest, Vol 84, Issue 20
> To: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> Date: Saturday, March 26, 2011, 7:00 PM
>
>
> Send sword-devel mailing list submissions to
> ??? sword-devel at crosswire.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ??? http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ??? sword-devel-request at crosswire.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ??? sword-devel-owner at crosswire.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sword-devel digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ???1. Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed? (Martin Denham)
> ???2. Re: Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed?
> ? ? ? (Chris Little)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 19:18:28 +0000
> From: Martin Denham <mjdenham at gmail.com>
> To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum"
> ??? <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Subject: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
> ??? removed?
> Message-ID:
> ??? <AANLkTikscjMaxfSbq3q-JEDpkbpUHbEE9ugouTun2LjD at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> The Russian Synodal Translation has disappeared from the And Bible
> download
> list but I am wondering if there is a general problem because it also
> seems
> to be missing from the CrossWire module list here:
> http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles unless I
> am
looking in the wrong place.
>
> Thanks
> Martin
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 00:58:30 -0700
> From: Chris Little <chrislit at crosswire.org>
> To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
> ???
removed?
> Message-ID: <4D8D9CA6.2030007 at crosswire.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Yes, unfortunately it was discovered that this module contained
> copyrighted content. The non-copyrighted portions remain available in
> the RusSynodal module that was intended to replace this in any case.
>
> --Chris
>
> On 3/25/2011 12:18 PM, Martin Denham wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The Russian Synodal Translation has disappeared from the And Bible
> > download list but I am wondering if there is a general problem because
> > it also seems to be missing from the CrossWire module list here:
> > http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles unless
> > I am
looking in the wrong place.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of sword-devel Digest, Vol 84,
Issue 20
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>
>
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:16:55 +0400
From: Konstantin Maslyuk <kalemas at mail.ru>
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
removed?
Message-ID: <924343065.20110328181655 at mail.ru>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hello, listen, please, to my reasonings, concerning of removal RST
from the main
repository.
RST was the only worthy russian module, and everywhere at forums there
was a speech about Sword software there was a speech about RST module.
Many russian users very long time used the module containing mistakes
and the publication of qualitative Synodal translation was expected.
Instead they remain with nothing. Removal, without offering anything
in exchange it is like we want to lose russian users. But they too
are
very valuable, at least for me!
If CrossWire administration considers that RST has protected contents
and the legal owner does not wish to authorise for distribution of
this module, it should be removed. But we should prepare something in
replacement. Both reasons of removal can be solved. Strong's numbers
can be cut out, and the text can be taken from RusSynodal and
converted in KJV versification. System for conversion and necessary
mapping tables from Synodal to KJV v11n are made by me four months
ago. But nobody has suggested to make anything similar before the
removal. The love in the Christ means open dialogue between brothers,
closeness and not desire to share the opinions and plans gives the
rise
of incomprehension, it is as a crack where seeds of a devil fall
and growing into division between people.
Forgive me, if it has wounded someone.
> Yes, unfortunately it was discovered that this module contained
> copyrighted content. The non-copyrighted portions remain available in
> the RusSynodal module that was intended to replace this in any case.
> Chris
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:44:59 +0200
From: "Peter von Kaehne" <refdoc at gmx.net>
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been
removed?
Message-ID: <20110328144459.179920 at gmx.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The RusSynodal module exists of course, but is in
the "experimental" repo.
The solution to this is
a) rapid move of all av11n modules into the av11n repo (out of experimental)
b) update of the repolist refresher for the module manager. JSWORD, which will crash on the RusSynodal does of course not use the repolist, so there is no reason for fear.
All other frontends do not crash AFAIK with a av11n module, they might just not show all texts/books.
If I have permissions (on the server and in general) I could effect something like this tonight.
Peter
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:16:55 +0400
> Von: Konstantin Maslyuk <kalemas at mail.ru>
> An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] Has the Russian Synodal Translation been removed?
> Hello, listen, please, to my reasonings, concerning
of removal RST
> from the main repository.
>
> RST was the only worthy russian module, and everywhere at forums there
> was a speech about Sword software there was a speech about RST module.
> Many russian users very long time used the module containing mistakes
> and the publication of qualitative Synodal translation was expected.
> Instead they remain with nothing. Removal, without offering anything
> in exchange it is like we want to lose russian users. But they too are
> very
valuable, at least for me!
>
> If CrossWire administration considers that RST has protected contents
> and the legal owner does not wish to authorise for distribution of
> this module, it should be removed. But we should prepare something in
> replacement. Both reasons of removal can be solved. Strong's numbers
> can be cut out, and the text can be taken from RusSynodal and
> converted in KJV versification. System for conversion and necessary
> mapping tables from Synodal to KJV v11n are made by me four months
> ago. But nobody has suggested to make anything similar before the
> removal. The love in the Christ means open dialogue between brothers,
> closeness and not desire to share the
opinions and plans gives the
> rise of incomprehension, it is as a crack where seeds of a devil fall
> and growing into division between people.
>
> Forgive me, if it has wounded someone.
>
> > Yes, unfortunately it was discovered that this module contained
> > copyrighted content. The non-copyrighted portions remain available in
> > the RusSynodal module that was intended to replace this in any case.
>
> > Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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