[sword-devel] dynamic versification

Mon Mar 12 12:41:47 MST 2007

I have a few questions (that are born more out of ignorance than anything
else..like most of my thoughts.)

Is the idea that is being talked about to create a new VerseKey that takes
an input that is assumed to be the versification of a KJV verse and
translate that to what's appropriate for any module type so the reference
will always be pertinent?

If so, then could I give a suggestion that VerseKey be reworked to NOT do
that and to just provide pure access to whatever the module has and then
have a reversifier (new word:) )  object that somehow handles the
versification?

Maybe, to avoid breaking everybody else's code, make VerseKey the
reversifier and create a new object to access verses in their pure state,
like a PureKey object or something?  There are many reasons why someone
would want to have access to a non-reversified bible, and I'm sure I don't
need to come up with examples.

I don't know how hard or wrong of a thing it would be to do that, but from
what I can tell, I think that its not too poor of an idea.  Of course, I may
have just rehashed what everyone else was thinking, in which case ignore me
(though tell me before ignoring me:) )

I'm trying to stimulate conversation in this area to see what people think.
I'm looking for criticisms or suggestions.  From what I understand, there's
no momentum and this is a fairly open problem.

Also, one last question out of curiosity, are references to the NKJV made
because, aside from the non-Protestant books, its of the same versification
as the KJV?

-DJ

On 3/10/07, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
>
> Sorry, wanted to change the subject of this thread, and also wanted to
> correct a technical typo below:
>
> -SWORD Bibles use).  The new TreeKey subclass will be implemented to
>
> +SWORD Bibles use).  The new VerseKey subclass will be implemented to
>
>
> Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> > Jeremy,
> > Thanks for the great work you guys do over at Biola and for your
> > encouragement and offer to help with ideas.
> >
> > Sean,
> > Yes, this would allow deuterocanonical books.
> >
> > Greg,
> > Yes, you have the current plan correctly outlined.  Work has been
> > started.The goal is to take a module like LXXM:
> >
> >
> http://crosswire.org/study/bookdisplay.jsp?mod=LXXM&gbsEntry=%2FPsSol%2F18%2F1#cv
> >
> > which is currently imported as a SWORD General Book (General Books use a
> > TreeKey index, as you can see from the left navigation) and to make it
> > accessible via a new specialized VerseKey descendant (VerseKey is what
> > SWORD Bibles use).  The new TreeKey subclass will be implemented to
> > merely walk the existing TreeKey index of the General Book module format
> > to get it's data (books, chapter max, verse max, etc) and will position
> > the TreeKey to the appropriate node when it is positioned to, say, "John
> > 3:16".
> >
> > I started the work a really long time ago and think I merely got the
> > classes in place.  I can't remember actually.  I remember it was more
> > ugly than I thought.  Anyone is welcome to have a look and try to
> > understand where I was headed.  If you have questions, I'll try to
> answer.
> >
> > I would also love to have this completed but just haven't had the time
> > or motivation to jump back in.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > A few good places to start looking:
> >
> > The new VerseTreeKey class:
> > http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/src/keys
> >
> > The genbook driver (search for 'verse'):
> > http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/src/modules/genbook/rawgenbook/
> >
> > The SWMgr class looks for a new property in a module's .conf file
> > (search for "KeyType"):
> > http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/src/mgr/
> >
> >     -Troy.
> >
> >
> > Greg Hellings wrote:
> >
> >> I agree with Jeremy.  This seems like an ideal time to surge forward
> >> in the alternate versification planning.  Last I had heard there were
> >> already significant plans/work in place already on this, is that true?
> >>  I thought the plan was to use a TreeKey with an interface that
> >> allowed existing use of the VerseKey interface to automatically map to
> >> the proper portion of the tree for selected verses to allow current
> >> clients to continue working with the library.  Is that approximately
> >> right?
> >>
> >> How much work has been done on it?  What remains to tackle?
> >>
> >> --Greg
> >>
> >> On 3/10/07, Jeremy Brown <jeremy.brown at biola.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> That is really great. I don't post here much (ever?) but I am
> appreciative
> >>> of the work Crosswire does.
> >>>
> >>> I have a question, in the face of the coming onslaught of Bible
> >>> translations.  It regards the versification schemes.  I know people
> always
> >>> ask about that, and it is on the to-do list.  But I wonder if now
> would be
> >>> a great time to do something about the problem.  Right now (if I'm
> wrong,
> >>> forgive me), Sword seems to take non-KJV versification schemes and
> squish
> >>> them into KJV chapter/verse format.  I have tried to work up an
> alternate
> >>> solution and basically I know that there is no perfect answer - every
> >>> solution has its trade offs.  However, since has an enormous number of
> >>> translations, and probably many of those don't fit the KJV
> versification
> >>> model (they may follow the model of the national language where they
> were
> >>> translated, or merge multiple verses together e.g. verse 1-7), it
> seems
> >>> like if you can plan a strategy and deal with the issue now, you won't
> >>> have to code all those translations once, and then recode them again
> when
> >>> you do make the change.
> >>>
> >>> I currently have about 30-40 Bibles/testaments that are
> mapped/partially
> >>> mapped to the verse system in the NRSVA.  The original versification
> is
> >>> preserved in the database, but also the matching verse number in the
> >>> NRSVA.  There are some things I would have done differently, that I
> now
> >>> know about.  If you are interested in hearing more from me about this,
> I'd
> >>> be happy to share.  You may already have some ideas in the works, I
> don't
> >>> know.
> >>>
> >>> Keep up the good work!
> >>>
> >>> Jeremy
> >>>
> >>> sword-devel at crosswire.org on Saturday, March 10, 2007 at 11:00 AM
> -0800
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> With great joy, I would like to officially announce that CrossWire
> and
> >>>> SIL have entered into an agreement which allows us to distribute,
> >>>> royalty free, SIL Bible translations, anywhere in the world, for an
> >>>> initial 5 year trial period.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is huge answer to prayer.
> >>>>
> >>>> A number of years ago, when we first started working with
> SIL/Wycliffe,
> >>>> we had talks about publishing their Scripture translations.  They
> >>>> proceeded to tell us of the internal struggles between those who
> wished
> >>>> to release their work for free, and others who held that the
> >>>> organization needed to continue to charge royalties for their work to
> >>>> allow them to continue work into the future.
> >>>>
> >>>> About a year ago Wycliffe started a project to use our software to
> >>>> publish their Bibles online, themselves.
> >>>>
> >>>> This contract allows CrossWire to distribute all of their Bibles
> freely
> >>>> in all of our software!
> >>>>
> >>>> The papers came officially signed in the mail today.  We are hoping
> to
> >>>> have data files start coming in over the next couple weeks.  We could
> >>>> really use help in many new areas as we start to bring these great
> >>>> resources online.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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