[sword-devel] KJV2006 Project
Kristian Due
kriswdue at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 16 08:58:44 MST 2006
And that is some of the reason SWORD has such a good reputation as it
has - because you try to be honest to the texts and present it so that
the interpretors can make the decision for themselves! That is what
qualifies it a scientifically usable tool, and makes it prosper in
environments with different theologies!
Thank you - you are doing great work! :)
I'm sorry if I wrote in such a way that could be read as advocating a
theologically based decision in a matter that in principle should not
even be considered. (c.f. "Thus, the point is moot as to whether or nt
it is a good decision to capitalize...").
- Kristian
Greg Hellings wrote:
> It might be nice for you to offer people the choice and the chances.
> I think that is what someone was indicating when they stated that we
> ought not to make this a theologically based decision but rather a
> choice based on our best re-construction of the material. The choice
> comes in that SWORD offers as many of the possible translations as
> possible in as accurate a representation as possible - even going so
> far as to present the questionable/cultish versions of the scripture.
> Thus, the point is moot as to whether or nt it is a good decision to
> capitalize, since we are trying to develop a rendition of the KJV and
> not our interpretation of the material.
>
> --Greg H
>
> On 2/15/06, *Darald Bantel* <dbantel at telus.net
> <mailto:dbantel at telus.net>> wrote:
>
> As this has become a personal opinion piece I will weigh in!
>
>
> On Wed, 2006-02-15 at 18:44 +0100, Kristian Due wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > Just wanted to add two more reasons (in addition to Chris' good
> point
> > of hyperothodoxy) why you should not capitalize the pronouns in
> KJV. You
> > are probably aware of them anyway, but I think them a little
> funny, so
> > they deserve to be mentioned.
> >
> > 1) The singular pronouns ( e.g. thou/thee) in middle-english are
> > always used in non-formal settings, and for formal settings the
> plural
> > forms you (and ye) were used. The funny thing here is the
> semantic shift
> > because the middle english *informal* pronouns have become the
> modern
> > english *formal* pronouns, and vice versa!
> > 2) If the translators of KJV had wanted to revere God by
> pronouns,
> > they certainly would have used the formal ones. The informal
> pronouns
> > probably reflect a theological consideration - a God we are
> allowed to
> > call abba/daddy certainly does not demand reverence through
> capitalized
> > pronouns.
>
> Right in one - God does not demand reverence and He does encourage
> me to
> think of Him as a beloved Father but (a very important but) albeit
> though He (in His Son) walks beside me He is still also pure holiness
> and as such I offer Him reverence. If I wish to do such that does not
> detract from what you do - rather it is my decision - as such would it
> not be nice to give the user the option rather than ranting in
> one's own
> opinion?
>
> Darald
>
> Post scriptum If you found the foregoing hard to read - sorry but
> this
> is the way I prefer to write about my God.
> D
>
> >
> > When the pronouns in KJV are capitalized, it is because of a severe
> > semantic misunderstanding (which is a little funny...) and, as I
> would
> > argue, a severe theological misunderstanding.
> >
> > I am aware that perhaps someone would feel that the second
> argument here
> > is disputable, and I know this is not a theological mailinglist,
> but I
> > hope these points may be of interest! For of course - the main
> point
> > should be to give the KJV text as it was originally printed, no
> matter
> > how the translators use pronouns.
> >
> > My best wishes for KJV 2006
> >
> > Kristian Due
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Little wrote:
> >
> > > Please don't change this. Pronouns referring to God in the KJV use
> > > lowercase. They did in the 1611. They did in the 1769.
> Anything that
> > > deviates from this is edited.
> > >
> > > The whole practice of capitalizing pronouns referring to God is a
> > > stupid modern attempt at hyper-orthodoxy. Very simply put:
> pronouns
> > > are never capitalized in modern English unless they come at
> the start
> > > of a sentence or are title-cased. And the irony is that the same
> > > people who would WANT to modify a text to capitalize such
> pronouns are
> > > likely often also people who would decry similar modification
> of a
> > > text to be gender neutral where source texts/other
> translations use
> > > masculine.
> > >
> > > It's a silly, bad, evil, yucky, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad practice.
> > >
> > > --Chris
> > >
> > >
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