[sword-devel] KJV2006 Project

Kristian Due kriswdue at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 16 08:58:44 MST 2006


And that is some of the reason SWORD has such a good reputation as it 
has - because you try to be honest to the texts and present it so that 
the interpretors can make the decision for themselves! That is what 
qualifies it a scientifically usable tool, and makes it prosper in 
environments with different theologies!

Thank you - you are doing great work! :)

I'm sorry if I wrote in such a way that could be read as advocating a 
theologically based decision in a matter that in principle should not 
even be considered. (c.f. "Thus, the point is moot as to whether or nt 
it is a good decision to capitalize...").

- Kristian

Greg Hellings wrote:

> It might be nice for you to offer people the choice and the chances.  
> I think that is what someone was indicating when they stated that we 
> ought not to make this a theologically based decision but rather a 
> choice based on our best re-construction of the material.  The choice 
> comes in that SWORD offers as many of the possible translations as 
> possible in as accurate a representation as possible - even going so 
> far as to present the questionable/cultish versions of the scripture.  
> Thus, the point is moot as to whether or nt it is a good decision to 
> capitalize, since we are trying to develop a rendition of the KJV and 
> not our interpretation of the material.
>
> --Greg H
>
> On 2/15/06, *Darald Bantel* <dbantel at telus.net 
> <mailto:dbantel at telus.net>> wrote:
>
>     As this has become a personal opinion piece I will weigh in!
>
>
>     On Wed, 2006-02-15 at 18:44 +0100, Kristian Due wrote:
>     > Hi!
>     >
>     > Just wanted to add two more reasons (in addition to  Chris' good
>     point
>     > of hyperothodoxy) why you should not capitalize the pronouns in
>     KJV. You
>     > are probably aware of them anyway, but I think them a little
>     funny, so
>     > they deserve to be mentioned.
>     >
>     >     1) The singular pronouns ( e.g. thou/thee) in middle-english are
>     > always used in non-formal settings, and for formal settings the
>     plural
>     > forms you (and ye) were used. The funny thing here is the
>     semantic shift
>     > because the middle english *informal* pronouns have become the
>     modern
>     > english *formal* pronouns, and vice versa!
>     >     2) If the translators of KJV had wanted to revere God by
>     pronouns,
>     > they certainly would have used the formal ones. The informal
>     pronouns
>     > probably reflect a theological consideration - a God we are
>     allowed to
>     > call abba/daddy certainly does not demand reverence through
>     capitalized
>     > pronouns.
>
>     Right in one - God does not demand reverence and He does encourage
>     me to
>     think of Him as a beloved Father but (a very important but) albeit
>     though He (in His Son) walks beside me He is still also pure holiness
>     and as such I offer Him reverence. If I wish to do such that does not
>     detract from what you do - rather it is my decision - as such would it
>     not be nice to give the user the option rather than ranting in
>     one's own
>     opinion?
>
>     Darald
>
>     Post scriptum  If you found the foregoing hard to read - sorry but
>     this
>     is the way I prefer to write about my God.
>     D
>
>     >
>     > When the pronouns in KJV are capitalized, it is because of a severe
>     > semantic misunderstanding (which is a little funny...) and, as I
>     would
>     > argue, a severe theological misunderstanding.
>     >
>     > I am aware that perhaps someone would feel that the second
>     argument here
>     > is disputable, and I know this is not a theological mailinglist,
>     but I
>     > hope these points may be of interest! For of course - the main
>     point
>     > should be to give the KJV text as it was originally printed, no
>     matter
>     > how the translators use pronouns.
>     >
>     > My best wishes for KJV 2006
>     >
>     > Kristian Due
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Chris Little wrote:
>     >
>     > > Please don't change this. Pronouns referring to God in the KJV use
>     > > lowercase. They did in the 1611. They did in the 1769.
>     Anything that
>     > > deviates from this is edited.
>     > >
>     > > The whole practice of capitalizing pronouns referring to God is a
>     > > stupid modern attempt at hyper-orthodoxy. Very simply put:
>     pronouns
>     > > are never capitalized in modern English unless they come at
>     the start
>     > > of a sentence or are title-cased. And the irony is that the same
>     > > people who would WANT to modify a text to capitalize such
>     pronouns are
>     > > likely often also people who would decry similar modification
>     of a
>     > > text to be gender neutral where source texts/other
>     translations use
>     > > masculine.
>     > >
>     > > It's a silly, bad, evil, yucky, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad practice.
>     > >
>     > > --Chris
>     > >
>     > >
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