[sword-devel] console cf LCD bible

DM Smith dmsmith555 at yahoo.com
Thu Aug 12 19:49:59 MST 2004

Lynn, thanks for your reply. See embedded response.

Lynn Alan wrote:
>> DM Smith wrote:
>>>The size of Java 1.4 JRE is 1.2M. My opinion is that Java belongs on
>>>everyone's machine.
> Is this specifically for Linux?
>>From Javasoft website:
> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html
> For Windows, choose "Windows Online Installation" for the quickest download and installation on a machine connected to the Internet. Typical download size is 7.6 MB, which is the minimum download. The size may increase if additional features are selected.
Good catch! I try to be accurate, but boy did I miss the mark!! I was 
looking at a couple of download files that I had for the JRE on 1.4 for 
both Windows and Linux. Turns out they are online download. The download 
for the offline is 12-15M for Windows and Linux.

On windows it unpacks to 40M+. I knew that the packed size would be 
smaller, but not that much smaller.

> I originally wrote the InVerse scripture memorization freeware as a Java app, but switched because the associated/required JRE caused the download to go by a factor of over 60x (80kb to 5+ meg). My experience is that it is flawed to assume a Win2000 or Win98 (FE-SE-ME) user has Java installed.

I don't assume that any windows user has Java installed. I suspect that 
it is on very few windows machines and when it is I bet it is an earlier 

The goal is to build a platform independent application, "Write once, 
run anywhere"

> My impression is that a relatively less computer literate person using Win98 or Win2000 to run JSword is looking at a 1.2meg + 7.6 meg download and a less than obvious installation.

I don't think that installing Java is any harder than downloading and 
installing any other program from the net.

We chose Webstart for the mechanism of installation to simplify the 
installation. It requires that Java 1.3 or greater is installed. If Java 
1.4 is not installed on the computer, then we have configured the JNLP 
file to download, install and use it. We probably need to add a 
disclaimer to the download for those with modems.

Later we will add other installation mechanisms (e.g. RPM).

WebStart is especially good to maintain a current installation, like the 
nightly build.

> IMHO, Java is great for intranets, but has problems with performance and installation for standalone apps.

I accept your opinion, but I have a different one.

I have heard the performance problem, but I have not experienced it when 
code is written explicitly in Java using the power of Java. At work we 
re-wrote a C++ application into Java and shaved the runtime from over 4 
hours (it was a huge data cruncher) to 1 hour.

The greatest gain was that we moved it from a beefy Sun server to a 
Windows desktop PC and it cut the runtime by half again. And that was 
with no change in code.

The greatest reason for the gain was not that Java was better than C++, 
but that algorithms and techniques were chosen that were appropriate for 
the problem and the language. I am certain that if we were to have 
re-written it in C++ that it would have been fast as well. But it would 
not have run on a PC without a significant porting effort.

In JSword, I have fixed two significant performance problems. In each 
case the problem was in the algorithm, not in the speed of Java.

With a GUI application, the accusation of performance is not much of an 
issue if it can be "between the keystrokes" (a favorite phrase of a 
former colleague of mine), meaning that it is fast enough if the user 
does not experience an unacceptable delay. Or as Joe reminds, don't do 
premature optimization.
> Lynn A.

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