[osis-core] New milestone use of elements

[Patrick Durusau]

Todd,

Todd Tillinghast wrote:

>The trouble with deferring the issue is that we have to pick either mID
>or mS/mE for the immediate release.  By choosing an option it would seem
>that we are also not diferring the issue.
>  
>
I think we need clarity on what everyone thinks the "issue" is first of 
all. (see below)

>Here is an example of my problem with not allowing there to be milestone
>starts and ends without their partner.  
>
I don't think I have ever intimated that you could not have a milestone 
start without a milestone end or vice versa. BTW, I don't think your 
example is about this point.

>If I want to create a document
>that is just a single section and a quote starts in the previous section
>then the previous section must also be included.  If a verse continues
>from the section prior to the one already added then the preceding
>section would also have to be included.  This can go on and on.  If I
>know this is the end or starting milestone marker then I can also know
>that the partner was truncated.
>  
>
This is precisely the XML Fragment question, which is discussed at: 
http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-fragment.

Note that it is presumed in XML Fragment land that at one point there 
was a well-formed document and that the fragment appears from that document.

One issue is do we presume a valid document at the beginning and then 
the fragment is obtained from that point? (This means that you would not 
"create" a document as in your instance but would obtain the fragment 
from a valid document.)

Will look at Troy's latest post.

Patrick

>Perhaps, this should be one of the things indicated about an encoding
>somewhere in the header.  (Unmatched milestone pairs are errors VS
>Unmatched milestone pairs have had their partner truncated.)
>
>Todd 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: osis-core-admin@bibletechnologieswg.org [mailto:osis-core-
>>admin@bibletechnologieswg.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:15 PM
>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>Subject: Re: [osis-core] New milestone use of elements
>>
>>Troy,
>>
>>This is the fragment issue. It is tough sledding and if anything, I
>>think we need to address it in August, assuming we can be ready by
>>    
>>
>then.
>  
>
>>Let's mark it as know issue.
>>
>>For the moment, I would say from an encoding standpoint that when you
>>use the mID, you have to use matching elements with the same value for
>>mID. Ducking the issue of querying b/c of the fragment question.
>>Answering that requires a lot more than simply matching the milestone
>>element.
>>
>>Note that Todd's proposal is not an answer either since getting mS or
>>    
>>
>mE
>  
>
>>does not answer the question either. I need to know what mS that an mE
>>is pointing towards, not merely that they match, since they could be
>>    
>>
>all
>  
>
>>over a text. Now we have the encoder using different attribute names
>>    
>>
>and
>  
>
>>pointing to other values, i.e, not the element they are on. Easier to
>>off load this problem onto the application and not the encoding. see
>>    
>>
>for
>  
>
>>example: http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-fragment for how the W3C treats XML
>>fragments.
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>ok, I know replying to myself is a little wierd, but after further
>>>thinking....
>>>
>>>I understand the POSSIBILITY that there may be an excerpt with a
>>>      
>>>
>start
>  
>
>>>or end quote.  We probably should allow it.  If someone wanted the
>>>last 10 verses of Jesus' Sermon On The Mount, I'd expect it to end
>>>with a </q>
>>>
>>>BUT I still don't think we should allow a milestone without it's
>>>start/end counterpart.  That's like saying we'd allow </q> without
>>>      
>>>
>the
>  
>
>>><q>.
>>>
>>>I think we need to be hard and fast about the rule I stated earlier.
>>>
>>>So, thinking further.....
>>>
>>>
>>>If I wanted to encode an excerpt that started in the middle of a
>>>      
>>>
>quote
>  
>
>>>and contained the end of the quote.....
>>>
>>>How would I encode it????
>>>
>>>Let's not even think milestones here.  MILESTONES should not ADD
>>>functionality... Like providing the ability to solve this
>>>      
>>>
>problem....
>  
>
>>>Would something like this be valid:
>>>
>>><q type="continuation">....</q>
>>>
>>>
>>>dunno the best way to solve it, but it should be solved the same
>>>whether using an XML container or a milestone.
>>>
>>>    -Troy.
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>osis-core mailing list
>>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>--
>>Patrick Durusau
>>Director of Research and Development
>>Society of Biblical Literature
>>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>osis-core mailing list
>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>>    
>>
>
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>
>  
>

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model