[osis-core] quotes

[Todd Tillinghast]

Troy,

I think that what is encoded should strictly be where the quote starts
and ends.  This can be accomplished either with a milestone or with a
<q> element.  If a <q> element is used then either the <q> element OR
the other overlapping elements would be segmented.  The fact that a
quote mark is placed at the first of a paragraph that continues a quote
from a prior paragraph is a presentation issue and different styles will
handle this differently.

I picked out Bible.TEV:Matt.13 for test encoding for the reasons you
have run into.  

If you go with segmentation, I personally think that it is more natural
to segment the <q> element rather than the <p> and possibly other
elements.

The benefit of segmenting the <q> element is that the presence of a
"splitID" attribute indicates that the quote has been split, which makes
the job of rendering a quote mark at the start of a paragraph that
continues a quote fairly simple.

This is how I would encode it:
<div>
	<p>
		<verse osisID="Jer.2.1">Moreover the word of the LORD
came to me, saying,</verse>
		<verse osisID="Jer.2.2">
			<q splitID="Q-Jer.2.2-A">Go and cry in the
hearing of Jerusalem, saying, <q splitID="Q-Jer.2.2-B">Thus says the
LORD:<q splitID="Q-Jer.2.2-C">I remember you, The kindness of your
youth, The love of your betrothal, When you went after Me in the
wilderness, In a land not sown. </q>
				</q>
			</q>
		</verse>
		<verse osisID="Jer.2.3">
			<q splitID="Q-Jer.2.2-A">
				<q splitID="Q-Jer.2.2-B">
					<q splitID="Q-Jer.2.2-C">Israel
[was] holiness to the LORD, The firstfruits of His increase.  All that
devour him will offend; Disaster will come upon them,</q>
					<!--True Close Q-Jer.2.2-C
-->says the LORD.</q>
				<!-- True Close Q-Jer.2.2-B -->
			</q>
			<!--NO True Close Q-Jer.2.2-A -->
		</verse>
	</p>
	<p>
		<q splitID="Q-Jer.2.2-A">
			<verse osisID="Jer.2.4">Hear the word of the
LORD, O house of Jacob and all the families of the house of
Israel.</verse>
			<verse osisID="Jer.2.5">Thus says the LORD:<q
splitID="Q-Jer.2.5-A">What injustice have your fathers found in Me, That
they have gone far from Me, Have followed idols, And have become
idolaters?</q>
			</verse>
			<q splitID="Q-Jer.2.5-A">
				<verse osisID="Jer.2.6">Neither did they
say,<q>
						<!-- No need for a split
here --> Where [is] the LORD, Who brought us up out of the land of
Egypt, Who led us through the wilderness, Through a land of deserts and
pits, Through a land of drought and the shadow of death, Through a land
that no one crossed And where no one dwelt?</q>
				</verse>
				<verse osisID="Jer.2.7">I brought you
into a bountiful country, To eat its fruit and its goodness. But when
you entered, you defiled My land And made My heritage an
abomination.</verse>
				<verse osisID="Jer.2.8">The priests did
not say,<q>Where [is] the LORD?</q>And those who handle the law did not
know Me; The rulers also transgressed against Me; The prophets
prophesied by Baal, And walked after [things that] do not
profit.</verse>
				<verse osisID="Jer.2.9">
					<!--****conflict here**** no
ending "-->
				</verse>
			</q>
			<!-- True Close of Q-Jer.2.5-A -->
		</q>
		<!-- True Close of Q-Jer.2.2-A -->
	</p>
</div>
Not sure if I got the part near Jer.2.9 right since that is where you
left off and I don't have a printed NKJV.  Hopefully you get the idea.  

Also note that I started the split quote "Q-Jer.2.5-A" inside the
<verse> element Jer.2.5 but then had the continuation of the <q> element
"Q-Jer.2.5-A" contain the <verse> elements for Jer.2.6, Jer.2.7, Jer.2.8
and Jer.2.9.  This leaves "Q-Jer.2.5-A" split into only two pieces but
also has it contained within and containing <verse> elements that are
parallel.

The placement of the continuation quote mark when rendering would be
identified by a <q> that is split prior to the first "text" in the
paragraph.

The other option is to use milestones.  I am not really opposed to using
milestones for quotes, especially for cases like this.  But I don't
think there is any need for <q type="continuation"> since there will
MUST already be the information provided by "splitID" attributes.

What do you think?

Todd


> Hey guys.  Got some quote questions for you all.  Again, I go to
> extremely difficult problems in the minor prophets.  Please see after
> example for my immediate question.
> 
> Here's an excerpt from the NKJV, Jer 2:1-.  I've tried to 'codify' the
> quotes and indentation to help see the hierarchy:
> 
> _________________________
> 
> 1. Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying,  2.
> "
>    Go and cry in the hearing of Jerusalem, saying,
>    '
>      Thus says the LORD:
>      "
>        I remember you, The kindness of your youth, The love of your
>        betrothal, When you went after Me in the wilderness, In a
>        land not sown.  3. Israel [was] holiness to the LORD, The
>        firstfruits of His increase.  All that devour him will
>        offend; Disaster will come upon them,
>      "
>      says the LORD.
>    '
> "
> 4. Hear the word of the LORD, O house of Jacob and all the
> families of the house of Israel.  5. Thus says the LORD:
> "
>    What injustice have your fathers found in Me, That they have gone
>    far from Me, Have followed idols, And have become idolaters?
>    6. Neither did they say,
>    '
>      Where [is] the LORD, Who brought us up out of the land of Egypt,
>      Who led us through the wilderness, Through a land of deserts
>      and pits, Through a land of drought and the shadow of death,
>      Through a land that no one crossed And where no one dwelt?
>    '
>    7. I brought you into a bountiful country, To eat its fruit
>    and its goodness. But when you entered, you defiled My land
>    And made My heritage an abomination.  8. The priests did not say,
>    '
>      Where [is] the LORD?
>    '
>    And those who handle the law did not know Me; The rulers
>    also transgressed against Me; The prophets prophesied
>    by Baal, And walked after [things that] do not profit.
>    9.
> <****conflict here**** no ending ">
> "
>    Therefore I will yet bring charges against you,
> "
> says the LORD,...
> 
> 
> _________________________
> 
> Verse 9 has a 'continuation quote' that started in verse 5.  I think
the
> NKJV does this when a new paragraph begins and the quote spans the
> paragraph, eg.
> 
> This is a long quote, "Hello this is my first paragraph.
> "This is my second paragraph."
> 
> Here is another example from John 7:21:
> _________________________
> 
> 21. Jesus answered and said to them, "I did one work, and you all
marvel.
> 22. "Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses,
> but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath.
> 23. "If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of
> Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man
> completely well on the Sabbath?
> 24. "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous
> judgment."
> _________________________
> 
> the quote starts in 21, and continues thru 24.  There are
'continuation
> quotes' starting verses 22, 23, and 24.
> 
> 
> HOW IN THE WORLD SHOULD WE MARK THESE UP?
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> 1) Segmentation should not be the suggested mechanism do this.
> Segmentation is for CODING PROBLEMS of hierarchy and constitute ONE
> LOGICAL element, when reconstructed programmatically.  This is a very
> different thing that actual content segmentation symbols intended for
> the reader.
> 
> 2) suggestion: <q type="continuation" />
> 
> 3) alternate suggestion: no markup at all.  Just remove the
continuation
> quotes and let the renderer decide that it needs to insert the
> appropriate "'` or whatever/whenever the renderer feels the need to
show
> continuation quotes.
> 
> I think enabling authors to mark these up in text is best, so I prefer
> something like the suggestion in 2.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 		-Troy.
> 
> 
>