<html><body><div dir="ltr">David, that is misreading what I said.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If we want to create a new feature then it is a module makers responsibility to create the markup. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The markup which lends itself to toggling display is proper xml markup </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If there are modules which use ZWNJ or else currently then this is fine and good but in that form they can not and should not get the benefit of such a feature. They would require updating. </div><div id="ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">Sent from <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef">Outlook for iOS</a></div><div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message"><hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;"><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:</b> David F. Haslam <df.haslam@btinternet.com><br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 1, 2025 1:40 pm<br><b>To:</b> Peter von Kaehne <refdoc@gmx.net>; SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel@crosswire.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD filter to display word dividers</span><div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div></div>
But we can help them towards that goal by making module development
less onerous.<br>
Then perhaps they might use our derived module to help them check
their translation at each stage<br>
without them having to keep asking us to rebuild the module for them
with all the demanding file format transformations such a task
entails.<br>
There's nothing that forbids us to accept a module containing ZWSP
characters <i>per se</i>.<br>
<br>
And, btw, existing CrossWire module <b>KhmerNT</b> contains 223,198
ZWSP.<br>
Since it was released on 2012-02-15 nobody has batted an eyelid that
it used this means to mark lexical word boundaries.<br>
Not you, not me, not anyone in the core development team.<br>
So it's a bit rich to say over 13 years later that "it is our job to
.... and apply it".<br>
<br>
Our ministry as a Society should include actively assisting
translators, not merely distributing their finished product.<br>
<br>
Aside: We've not heard from any other team members yet.<br>
<br>
David<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2025-05-01 13:07, Peter von Kaehne
wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote><div dir="ltr">I would not expect any Bible translator to do
anything.</div><div dir="ltr"><br>
</div><div dir="ltr">if they tell us they used whatever to mark up
whatever then it is our job as module team tk take whatever and
find the appropriate semantic mark up and apply it. </div><div dir="ltr"><br>
</div><div dir="ltr">This is not different. </div><div dir="ltr"><br>
</div><div dir="ltr">Peter</div><div id="ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" dir="ltr"><br>
</div><div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">Sent from <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef">Outlook
for iOS</a></div><div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message"><hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;"><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:</b> sword-devel
<a href="mailto:sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org></a> on behalf of David
Haslam <a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><dfhdfh@protonmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 1, 2025 12:59 pm<br>
<b>To:</b> SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
<a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><sword-devel@crosswire.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Haslam <a href="mailto:df.haslam@btinternet.com" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><df.haslam@btinternet.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD
filter to display word dividers</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Hi
Peter,</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Undoubtedly,
but we cannot demand or expect most Bible translators to be
XML afficionados.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">It's
even difficult to teach some members of a translation team to
use the ZWSP properly.<br>
<br>
"If you cannot see it, key it again" can so easily become the
<i>modus operandi</i>.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Witness
the following in the same chapter prior to my involvement.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">After
I replaced all ZWSP by MIDDLE DOT, just look at the tangle!!!<br>
<i>See attached text file</i>.<br>
<br>
So we should do "belt and braces" to help the weak. </div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Also
called "going the extra mile". ๐</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">But
worry not. My feedback is already helping the Khmer
translation team. </div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Best
regards,<br>
<br>
David
</div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Sent
with <a href="https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G">Proton Mail</a> secure email.
</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_quote">On Thursday, May 1st, 2025 at
12:47 PM, Peter von Kaehne <a href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><refdoc@gmx.net></a> wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_quote">I think this is not
difficult per se, but it should be properly encoded. </div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_quote"><br>
</div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_quote"><w> seems
correct, using zero with characters seems not correct. </div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_quote"><br>
</div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_quote">Peter</div><div dir="ltr" id="ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line"><br>
</div><div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">Sent from <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener">Outlook
for iOS</a></div><div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message" id="mail-editor-reference-message-container"><hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;"><div dir="ltr" id="divRplyFwdMsg"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:</b> sword-devel
<a href="mailto:sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org></a> on behalf of
David Haslam <a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><dfhdfh@protonmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 1, 2025 11:30 am<br>
<b>To:</b> sword-devel mailing list
<a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><sword-devel@crosswire.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Haslam <a href="mailto:df.haslam@btinternet.com" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"><df.haslam@btinternet.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD
filter to display word dividers</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">I
wish to propose that we design in a new SWORD filter.<br>
<br>
The conf key would be:</div><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; list-style-type: disc;"><b>GlobalOptionFilter=ShowWordDividers</b></li></ul><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">In
the writing systems for the various languages of SE Asia (<b>Thai</b>,
<b>Khmer</b>, <b>Lao</b>, <b>Myanmar</b>) there is
[generally] <b>no space between words</b>.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">In
this respect, they are like many European languages before
the start of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Space-Between-Words-Origins-Medieval/dp/080474016X" title="silent reading" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener">silent reading</a>. The
descriptive term is <b><i>Scriptura Continua</i></b>.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
Some Bible translations for this region are already making
use of one of the ZERO WIDTH characters to invisibly mark
the divisions between lexical words.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Options
include:</div><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; list-style-type: disc;">U+200B
ZERO WIDTH SPACE</li><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; list-style-type: disc;">U+200C
ZERO WIDTH NON-JOINER</li><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; list-style-type: disc;">U+FEFF
ZERO WIDTH NO BREAK SPACE</li></ul><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">They
exclude:</div><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; list-style-type: disc;">U+200D
ZERO WIDTH JOINER</li></ul><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">A
further possibility, even without requiring a full study
Bible with Strong's, etc, is to simply wrap each lexical
word within the OSIS <b>w</b> element.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">One
without any OSIS attributes would suffice for this
purpose. Likewise, for the <b>seg</b> element.</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">My
proposal is that we design a feature to <b>show/hide word
dividers</b> by displaying them using a suitable visible
but non-intrusive character.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">My
suggestion is to use this Unicode character by default:</div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; list-style-type: disc;">U+00B7
MIDDLE DOT</li></ul><div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">We
could even allow the actual visible character to be
specified in a second conf key, thus:</div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; list-style-type: disc;">VisibleWordDivider=U+00B7</li></ul><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Benefits
would include:</div><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Helps
with language learning to know where lexical words start
and end</li><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Helps
with front-end search for whole words, exact phrase or
all words</li><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Helps
with checking the accuracy of Bible translations by
clearly displaying lexical word boundaries at the touch
of a single key in the front-end</li><li style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Paves
the way for Study Bible with the addition of Strong's
mark-up, etc.</li></ul><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Here's
a sample of Khmer verse text with the MIDDLE DOT as the
visible word divider:</div><blockquote style="padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: 3px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(200, 200, 200);"><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><b>Obad.1.1</b> </div><table class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="width: 561pt; box-sizing: border-box; border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px;"><tbody><tr><td class="protonmail_signature_block-user" align="left" style="width: 561pt; height: 29.25pt; border-width: 0.5pt medium 0.5pt 0.5pt; border-style: solid none solid solid; border-color: white currentcolor white white; background-color: rgb(184, 204, 228); padding-top: 1px; padding-right: 1px; padding-left: 1px; vertical-align: top; color: black;"><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">แแแยทแแถยทแแปแแทแยทแแทแแทแแแยทแแแแยทแแแยทแขแผแแถแแถ
แแแแแขแแแ
แถแแยทแแถยทแแแแยทแแถแยทแแแแแผแยทแแธยทแแแแปแยทแขแแแแ แ
แแพแยทแแถแยทแฎยทแแแแนแยทแแยทแแธยทแแแแแขแแแ
แถแแ
แแบยทแแถแยทแแผแยทแแแแถแแยทแแถแยทแแแแแผแยทแฒแแยทแแ
แแแแปแยทแ
แแแแยทแแยทแแถแแทยทแแถแแยทแกแถแยทแแแยทแแถแแแยทแแถ
"แ
แผแยทแแแแแยทแกแพแ !
แ
แผแยทแแพแยทแแแแแยทแกแพแยทแแแแพยทแ
แแแแถแแยทแแถแแยทแแทแยทแแ"</div></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">cf.
Here's what it looks like with the ZWSP as the in<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">visible
word </span>divider:</div><blockquote style="padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: 3px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(200, 200, 200);"><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><b>Obad.1.1</b></div><table class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="width: 561pt; box-sizing: border-box; border-collapse: collapse; border-spacing: 0px;"><tbody><tr><td class="protonmail_signature_block-user" align="left" style="width: 561pt; height: 29.25pt; border-width: 0.5pt medium 0.5pt 0.5pt; border-style: solid none solid solid; border-color: white currentcolor white white; background-color: rgb(184, 204, 228); padding-top: 1px; padding-right: 1px; padding-left: 1px; vertical-align: top; color: black;"><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">แแแโแแถโแแปแแทแโแแทแแทแแแโแแแแโแแแโแขแผแแถแแถ
แแแแแขแแแ
แถแแโแแถโแแแแโแแถแโแแแแแผแโแแธโแแแแปแโแขแแแแ แ
แแพแโแแถแโแฎโแแแแนแโแแโแแธโแแแแแขแแแ
แถแแ
แแบโแแถแโแแผแโแแแแถแแโแแถแโแแแแแผแโแฒแแโแแ
แแแแปแโแ
แแแแโแแโแแถแแทโแแถแแโแกแถแโแแแโแแถแแแโแแถ
"แ
แผแโแแแแแโแกแพแ !
แ
แผแโแแพแโแแแแแโแกแพแโแแแแพโแ
แแแแถแแโแแถแแโแแทแโแแ"</div></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">If
SWORD developers agree that my proposal merits
consideration, please would you start on the software
development.</div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
Best regards,<br>
<br>
David
</div><div dir="ltr" class="protonmail_signature_block" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
Sent with <a href="https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener">Proton Mail</a> secure email.
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