<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Arnaud,<div><br></div><div>Always best for fixes to be done upstream. I’d suggest that if you do have fixes in your Bible Scraper that you also catalog them so that the catalog can be given to the upstream maintainers.<div><br></div><div>DM<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Mar 19, 2025, at 4:55 AM, Arnaud Vié <unas.zole+avie@gmail.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr">
<span class="gmail-im"><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr">Hi David,</p><p dir="ltr">These bibles are generated by Cyrille using my Bible Scraper tool.</p><p>At
Cyrille's request, I implemented in this tool a small functionality to
fix fix typography on the fly to conform to the usual French rules. If I
remember well, I followed the rules on this page : <a href="https://formations.mywebisrich.eu/index.php?post/2019/10/06/Pense-bete-les-espaces-autour-des-signes-de-ponctuation-grammaticaux-et-mathematiques" target="_blank">https://formations.mywebisrich.eu/index.php?post/2019/10/06/Pense-bete-les-espaces-autour-des-signes-de-ponctuation-grammaticaux-et-mathematiques</a> <br></p><p>In
particular, the use of NBSP and NNBSP before/after punctuation marks is
on purpose, as highlighted by your Grok conversation : it avoid
disjointing the punctuation mark from the previous/next word. (When to
use NBSP versus NNBSP is a bit arbitrary apparently - the page I
followed recommended a full width NBSP for guillemets and colon, while
your Grok conversation suggests NNBSP there as well).</p><p>I could
probably add a rule to replace apostrophes stuck between two letters
(probably the best way to detect the elision use case) with U+2019 as
well - though Cyrille may prefer fixing those in the wikisource text
directly since you're giving an explicit list.</p></div></span><div>
Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Arnaud</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mer. 19 mars 2025 à 09:37, David Haslam <<a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com">dfhdfh@protonmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Here are the 19 verse locations for those 24 ordinary apostrophes that ought to replaced by U+2019.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><blockquote style="border-left:3px solid rgb(200,200,200);border-color:rgb(200,200,200);padding-left:10px;color:rgb(102,102,102)"><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 4:22</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: « Compte aussi les fils de Gerson d'après leurs maisons patriarcales, d’après leurs familles ;</span><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 10:26</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: la troupe de la tribu des fils d’Aser était commandée par Phégiel, fils d'Ochran,</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 12:8</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Je lui parle bouche à bouche, en me faisant voir, et non par énigmes, et il contemple la figure de Yahweh. Pourquoi donc n'avez-vous pas craint de parler contre mon serviteur, contre Moïse ? »</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 12:12</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Ah ! Qu'elle ne soit pas comme l’enfant mort-né qui, en sortant du sein de sa mère, a la chair à demi-consumée ! »</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 12:14</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Yahweh dit à Moïse : « Si son père lui avait craché au visage, ne serait-elle pas pendant sept jours couverte de honte ? Qu'elle soit séquestrée sept jours hors du camp ; après quoi, elle y sera reçue. »</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 13:20</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: ce qu’est le sol, s’il est gras ou maigre, s’il y a des arbres ou non. Ayez bon courage, et prenez des fruits du pays. » C'était le temps des premiers raisins.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 20:19</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Les enfants d’Israël lui dirent : « Nous monterons par la grande route, et, si nous buvons de ton eau, moi et mes troupeaux, j'en paierai le prix. Ce n'est pas une affaire ; je ne ferai que passer avec mes pieds. »</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 22:3</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: et Moab fut très effrayé en face du peuple, car celui-ci était nombreux ; il fut saisi d'épouvante en face des enfants d’Israël.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 31:18</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: mais toutes les filles qui n'ont pas connu la couche d’un homme, laissez-les vivre pour vous.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 31:35</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: et trente-deux mille d’entre les femmes qui n'avaient pas connu la couche d’un homme.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 32:23</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Mais si vous n'agissez pas ainsi, voici, vous péchez contre Yahweh ; et sachez que votre péché vous atteindra.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 32:33</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Moïse donna aux fils de Gad et aux fils de Ruben, et à la moitié de la tribu de Manassé, fils de Joseph, le royaume de Séhon, roi des Amorrhéens, et le royaume d'Og, roi de Basan, le pays avec ses villes et leurs territoires, les villes du pays d'alentour.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 32:40</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Moïse donna Galaad à Machir, fils de Manassé, qui s'y établit.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 33:2</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Moïse mit par écrit les lieux d'où ils partirent, selon leurs campements, d'après l’ordre de Yahweh, et voici leurs campements selon leurs départs :</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 33:14</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Ils partirent d’Alus et campèrent à Raphidim, et il n'y eut pas là d’eau à boire pour le peuple.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Numbers 35:12</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Ces villes vous serviront de refuge contre le vengeur du sang, afin que le meurtrier ne soit pas mis à mort avant d'avoir comparu en jugement devant l’assemblée.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">II Maccabees 15:32</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: et il leur montra la tête du criminel Nicanor et la main que ce blasphémateur avait étendue avec tant d'insolence contre la demeure sainte du Tout-Puissant.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">II Maccabees 15:33</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Puis, ayant coupé la langue de l'impie Nicanor, il voulut qu'on la donnât par morceaux en pâture aux oiseaux, et qu'on suspendit en face du temple le prix remporté par sa folie.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal"><b style="line-height:normal">Jonah 2:8</b></span><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">: Quand mon âme défaillait en moi,</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">je me suis souvenu de Yahweh ;</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">et ma prière est parvenue jusqu'à vous,</span></div><div><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">à votre saint temple.</span></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<div><i>Interesting that a majority of these are found in the same book!</i></div><div><br></div><div>
Best regards,<br><br>David
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On Wednesday, March 19th, 2025 at 8:00 AM, David Haslam <<a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com" target="_blank">dfhdfh@protonmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">A <b>Word Frequency</b> analysis on the <b>FreCrampon</b> text has uncovered 21 instances of words where the <b>ordinary ASCII apostrophe</b> was used to mark <b>elision</b>, instead of the proper character <span>U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK used in all the other places.</span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span><br></span></div><blockquote style="border-left:3px solid rgb(200,200,200);border-color:rgb(200,200,200);padding-left:10px;color:rgb(102,102,102)"><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span><span><u>Word</u> <u>Count</u></span><div><span>C'était 1</span></div><div><span>Qu'elle 2</span></div><div><span>d'Ochran 1</span></div><div><span>d'Og 1</span></div><div><span>d'alentour 1</span></div><div><span>d'après 2</span></div><div><span>d'avoir 1</span></div><div><span>d'insolence 1</span></div><div><span>d'où 1</span></div><div><span>d'épouvante 1</span></div><div><span>j'en 1</span></div><div><span>jusqu'à 1</span></div><div><span>l'impie 1</span></div><div><span>n'agissez 1</span></div><div><span>n'avaient 1</span></div><div><span>n'avez-vous 1</span></div><div><span>n'est 1</span></div><div><span>n'ont 1</span></div><div><span>n'y 1</span></div><div><span>qu'on 2</span></div><div><span>s'y 1</span></div><span></span><br></span></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<div>These should each be changed to use <span style="display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">U+2019.</span></div><div><span style="display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></span></div><div><span style="display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The issue should be fixed upstream in <span><a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_Crampon_1923" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_Crampon_1923</a></span></span></div><div><br></div><div>FIO. The attached <b>7-Zip</b> file contains the <b>Word Frequency</b> analysis.<br><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:normal">NB. References were first stripped out, and both types of NBSP were replaced by an ordinary space.</span></div><div><br></div><div>
Best regards,<br><br>David
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On Tuesday, March 18th, 2025 at 10:02 PM, David Haslam <<a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com" target="_blank">dfhdfh@protonmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">But see the continuation of my AI chat exchange in <span><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_0023c289-2171-4f8b-8ad7-98e0f086eeb8" target="_blank">https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_0023c289-2171-4f8b-8ad7-98e0f086eeb8</a></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">It may still be preferable to use <span>U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE [NNBSP] to separate the <b>Guillemots</b> from the word at start and end of each quotation.</span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><span>cf. This is already the case in <span style="display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">French<span> </span></span>module <b>FreLXXGiguet</b>.</span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">If we go down that route consistently, then some <b>preprocessing</b> would be required before performing a <b>Word Frequency</b> analysis on the module's text content.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><i>i.e. As part of module testing, in order to uncover any further anomalies</i>.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
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Best regards,<br><br>David
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On Tuesday, March 18th, 2025 at 9:42 PM, David Haslam <<a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com" target="_blank">dfhdfh@protonmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><p><i>I hadn't thought of doing this analysis until today</i>.</p><p>My recent <span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">detailed </span>observations about the <b>FreBBB</b> module also are applicable to <b>FreCampon</b>.<br>
<br>
<b>FreCrampon</b> contains <span>22143 U+00A0 NO BREAK SPACE (NBSP)</span></p><p>Of these, 6152 are not followed immediately by a punctuation mark!<br>
All but one of those are followed by a word character.</p><p>This means that 15991 of the NBSP are <u>followed by</u> a punctuation mark.</p><p>All 6151 of the othe locations match the PCRE <span><b>[[:punct:]]\xA0\w+</b></span></p><p>i.e. These are each <u>preceded by</u> a punctuation mark.</p><p>I therefore recommend that each NBSP be replaced by <span>U+2008 PUNCTUATION SPACE</span></p><p>
The 1 exception out of the 6152 is where the NBSP occurs strangely at the end of a verse!</p><div style="margin-top:14px;margin-bottom:14px"><span><b>Mark 2:22</b>: Et personne ne met du vin nouveau dans des outres vieilles : autrement, le vin fait rompre les outres et le vin se répand, et les outres sont perdues. Mais le vin nouveau doit se mettre dans des outres neuves. « </span><br><span></span><br>
i.e. It's the invisible character after an ordinary space after the <span style="display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">«</span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<div>That <span style="display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">«</span> may well be a typo, as it should surely be a <span>»</span> </div><div><br></div><div>To sum up: Replace all U+00A0 by U+2008 and correct the above typo!</div><div><br></div><div>We should advise the upstream source to do likewise!</div><div><br></div><div>
Best regards,<br><br>David
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On Monday, March 10th, 2025 at 9:51 AM, <a href="mailto:domcox@crosswire.org" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">domcox@crosswire.org</a> <a href="mailto:domcox@crosswire.org" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">domcox@crosswire.org</a> wrote:<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<blockquote><p>Dear All,</p><p>This is to announce that we have just now uploaded FreCrampon<br>
in the CrossWire (main) repository.</p><p>## Language:<br>
French</p><p>## Description:<br>
La Bible Augustin Crampon 1923</p><p>## Category:<br>
Biblical Text</p><p>## Version:<br>
This is an update. Version: 3.2</p><p>## What's new:<br>
Complete rereading of the whole Bible, correction of NT cross-references.</p><p>Many thanks to Cyrille_LAfricain for the hard work.</p><p>We wish you enjoyable reading,<br>
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