<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Hi DM,</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">One impact is on the <b>StatResGNT</b> module, in which both single and double left/right quotation marks have been added by the project leader.<br>Hiding Greek Accents has the bad effect of losing the end quotation mark for all the level 2 quotations in the text.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">NB. <i>It was seeing this project that prompted me to revisit this topic</i>.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">It would be a real benefit to this module to make the change that I proposed.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Further to my initial thoughts late last week, I now agree that U+2019 is the right codepoint choice to mark an elision.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">I was somewhat misled by the wrong answer given by <b>Leo AI</b>, which mistakenly told me that it was <span>a way to represent the <b>iota subscript</b>.</span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">It's only since quizzing <b>Grok AI</b> that my thoughts have become clear. <i>I admit that I should've known better, but I'm not a classicist</i>.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Yet the "category mistake" still exists - since an elision marker is <u>not</u> a diacritic. And by definition, a Greek Accent <u>is</u> a diacritic!</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Making the proposed change to the filter should have a minimal effect upon all the other Ancient Greek Bible modules.<br>The number of words<span style="display: inline !important; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span> </span>thus affected</span> in a Greek NT module is not huge! </div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">There's really no downside to still displaying the "typographical apostrophe".</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">To illustrate, these are the only 21 words in <b>TischMorph</b> that end with U+2019.</div><blockquote style="border-left: 3px solid rgb(200, 200, 200); border-top-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-right-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); border-bottom-color: rgb(200, 200, 200); padding-left: 10px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><u>Word</u> <u>Count</u><div><span>Δι’ 2</span></div><div><span>Κατ’ 1</span></div><div><span>δ’ 22</span></div><div><span>δι’ 142</span></div><div><span>καθ’ 61</span></div><div><span>κατ’ 82</span></div><div><span>μεθ’ 43</span></div><div><span>μετ’ 132</span></div><div><span>μηδ’ 1</span></div><div><span>οὐδ’ 8</span></div><div><span>παρ’ 59</span></div><div><span>τοῦτ’ 17</span></div><div><span>ἀλλ’ 220</span></div><div><span>ἀνθ’ 5</span></div><div><span>ἀπ’ 119</span></div><div><span>ἀφ’ 44</span></div><div><span>Ἀλλ’ 1</span></div><div><span>ἐπ’ 143</span></div><div><span>ἐφ’ 82</span></div><div><span>ὑπ’ 25</span></div><div><span>ὑφ’ 9</span></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div>
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<div class="protonmail_signature_block-user">It's now my considered view that even when the Greek accents are hidden by the filter, the elision marks ought to be retained.</div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user"><br></div><div class="protonmail_signature_block-user">
Best regards,<br><br>David
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On Monday, March 17th, 2025 at 3:06 PM, DM Smith <dmsmith@crosswire.org> wrote:<br>
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David, I read your Grok 3 analysis.<div><br></div><div><div>What is the impact of not having this change? What is the impact of making the change? Is it merely presentation of is there an issue with searching too?</div><div><br></div><div>I’ve also been reading <a href="https://corp.unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2019-January/007563.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener">https://corp.unicode.org/pipermail/unicode/2019-January/007563.html</a> which was referenced in a prior recent thread on U+2019 in Ancient Greek. This is long and worth reading to understand how it might impact SWORD. The thread is initiated by James Tauber.<div><br></div><div>TL;DR:</div><div>U+2019 (and in older texts U+0027) in Ancient Greek was never used for quotations and is only used for elision. It is considered the recommended character for elisions.</div><div>The Unicode rules (when the thread was written in January 2019) of TR29 have that U+2019 is a word break when at the front or end of a word, but not within a word. It is not simply punctuation. These rules are not language aware.</div><div>There is no zero width character in Unicode to join words.</div><div>It is impossible for TR29 to distinguish between U+2019 used as a quotation mark and as an elision.</div><div>There is no other character that is an appropriate replacement for U+2019.</div><div><br></div><div>I haven’t yet looked at Unicode TR30 regarding folding rules as it pertains to this.<br><div><br></div><div>In Him,</div><div><span style="white-space:pre" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>DM</div><div><br></div><div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Mar 17, 2025, at 8:46 AM, David Haslam <dfhdfh@protonmail.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Dear SWORD developers,</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">I asked about this topic several years ago, and I'm no longer convinced by what we were told back then.<br>
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After doing further research, it's my understanding that <b>U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK</b> ought <b><u>not</u></b> to be hidden by this SWORD filter.<br>
<br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><ol data-listchain="__List_Chain_93" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" data-editing-info="{"orderedStyleType":1,"unorderedStyleType":1}"><li style="list-style-type: "1. ";"><span>
This codepoint is <u>not</u> a diacritic that modifies the previous Greek letter. In other words, it's <b><u>not</u></b> a Greek accent.<br></span></li><li style="list-style-type: "2. ";"><span>This codepoint has the Unicode properties of a <b>punctuation mark</b>.</span></li><li style="list-style-type: "3. ";"><span>In Ancient Greek text, it's used to mark an <b>elision</b>, where the final vowel of a word is omitted when the next word begins with a vowel.</span></li></ol></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
To view my research, conducted with the help of <b>Grok 3</b>, please visit the following link.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><ul style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" data-editing-info="{"orderedStyleType":1,"unorderedStyleType":1}"><li style="list-style-type: disc;"><span><a href="https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_43ff1922-3876-4d9a-9e42-6ae940007fd0" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_43ff1922-3876-4d9a-9e42-6ae940007fd0</a></span><br></li></ul></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
I therefore recommend that SWORD developers revisit the specification for this filter, and update it so that <b>U+2019</b> is <u>never</u> hidden.<br>
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