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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks for the feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What is the correct method to mark the introduction to the psalms then, but still searchable in inter alia Xiphos please?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Johan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Arnaud Vié<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 29 January 2025 10:01<br>
<b>To:</b> SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel@crosswire.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks DM for the answer !<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The "OSIS pre-verse titles" wiki page mentioned that sword used x-preverse, but it wasn't clear to me if it was a requirement to have in the input document.<br>
In doubt I added it when outputting OSIS from my bible-scraper, but now I know I can remove it safely :-)
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regarding the verse delimiters in the middle of psalm titles, as David mentioned it's the case in many french bibles, where psalm titles are all over the place.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The examples I know come from bibles that Cyrille scraped with my tool, and for which he had the issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In all of them, I worked around it by writing several <title> tags for a single psalm (each title fully contained within a verse) in each case.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For verse 1 starting in the middle of the psalm title, see Psalm 28 in
<a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_sainte_Bible_selon_la_Vulgate_(J.-B._Glaire)/Psaumes#PSAUME_28._(H%C3%A9br.,_XXIX).[292]" target="_blank">
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_sainte_Bible_selon_la_Vulgate_(J.-B._Glaire)/Psaumes#PSAUME_28._(H%C3%A9br.,_XXIX).[292]</a> , which I think Cyrille published as FreVulgGlaire. (I see it in AndBible, but for some reason it does not show up on the
<a href="http://crosswire.org">crosswire.org</a> website library).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For psalm title spanning two verses, you can check verses 50, 51, 53, 59 and more of <a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Traduction_de_la_Septante_et_du_Nouveau_Testament/Psaumes#PSAUME_L" target="_blank">https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Traduction_de_la_Septante_et_du_Nouveau_Testament/Psaumes#PSAUME_L</a>,
which he published as FreLXXGiguet on the crosswire repo.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I can provide full OSIS documents with these use cases and without my workaround (so with the verse tags really written within a single title) - feel free to mail me directly if needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Arnaud<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Le mar. 28 janv. 2025 à 21:33, DM Smith <<a href="mailto:dmsmith@crosswire.org">dmsmith@crosswire.org</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 28, 2025, at 1:48<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM, Arnaud Vié <<a href="mailto:unas.zole%2Bavie@gmail.com" target="_blank">unas.zole+avie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Hi David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">The usage of "acrostic" in this case is indeed semantically incorrect. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">According to the OSIS specification, the correct markup for a psalm canonical title is <br>
<title type="psalm" canonical="true"><br>
and it is perfectly allowed to occur before the first verse.<br>
The crosswire wiki mentions that, in this case, sword requires an additional attribute subType="x-preverse" on the title tag, though I'm not sure what the purpose of this tag is and if it affects your issue with searching.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">subType=“x-preverse” is added by osis2mod. No one writing OSIS should need to put that in. SWORD uses this to handle material that stands before the verse number.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Early on pre-verse material was a heading. Later it could be more complex.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In a SWORD frontend it does something like this pseudo code.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">if (showingHeadings or verse.headingIsCanonical())<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">output( verse.getHeading() )<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">output( verse.getVerseNumber() )<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">output( verse.getContent() )<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Note, the above does not care if the module is OSIS, ThML, GBF, plain text, … <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">As a side note, in many bibles, as you say, some psalm titles span several verses, and therefore the OSIS spec allows <verse/>
tags in the middle of a psalm title - though currently sword does not support it because osis2mod does not transform the <title> tag to milestoned form.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Right. It doesn’t fit the pattern above. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What module exhibits this multi-verse title and in which Psalm? I’d like to take a look at it.<br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Arnaud<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Le mar. 28 janv. 2025, 13:12, David Haslam <<a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com" target="_blank">dfhdfh@protonmail.com</a>> a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks John,<br>
<br>
<u>Aside</u>: I'm puzzled by the use of <b>type="acrostic"</b> when the 125 Psalms with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics, <i>per se</i>. Surely, that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in Psalm 119 ?<br>
<br>
There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).<br>
I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.<br>
<br>
In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper are <u>before</u> the start of verse 1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Best regards,<br>
<br>
David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent with <a href="https://proton.me/mail/home" target="_blank">Proton Mail</a> secure email.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <<a href="mailto:johan.marais@messianic.co.za" target="_blank">johan.marais@messianic.co.za</a>> wrote:<br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">David.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><image003.png><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">And a ‘normal’ search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><image002.png><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:6.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Johan Marais<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sword-devel <<a href="mailto:sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org</a>> On Behalf Of David Haslam<br>
Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45<br>
To: sword-devel mailing list <<a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>><br>
Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">There were no results found!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">"To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Sent with Proton Mail secure email.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><image002.png><image003.png><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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