<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Thanks DM for the answer !</div><div>The "OSIS
pre-verse titles" wiki page mentioned that sword used x-preverse, but it
wasn't clear to me if it was a requirement to have in the input
document.<br>In doubt I added it when outputting OSIS from my bible-scraper, but now I know I can remove it safely :-) <br></div><div><br></div><div>Regarding
the verse delimiters in the middle of psalm titles, as David mentioned
it's the case in many french bibles, where psalm titles are all over the
place.</div><div>The examples I know come from bibles that Cyrille scraped with my tool, and for which he had the issue.</div><div>In
all of them, I worked around it by writing several <title> tags
for a single psalm (each title fully contained within a verse) in each
case.<br></div><div><br></div><div>For verse 1 starting in the middle of the psalm title, see Psalm 28 in <a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_sainte_Bible_selon_la_Vulgate_(J.-B._Glaire)/Psaumes#PSAUME_28._(H%C3%A9br.,_XXIX).[292]" target="_blank">https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_sainte_Bible_selon_la_Vulgate_(J.-B._Glaire)/Psaumes#PSAUME_28._(H%C3%A9br.,_XXIX).[292]</a> , which I think Cyrille published as FreVulgGlaire. (I see it in AndBible, but for some reason it does not show up on the <a href="http://crosswire.org">crosswire.org</a> website library).<br></div><div>For psalm title spanning two verses, you can check verses 50, 51, 53, 59 and more of <a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Traduction_de_la_Septante_et_du_Nouveau_Testament/Psaumes#PSAUME_L" target="_blank">https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Traduction_de_la_Septante_et_du_Nouveau_Testament/Psaumes#PSAUME_L</a>, which he published as FreLXXGiguet on the crosswire repo.</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>I
can provide full OSIS documents with these use cases and without my
workaround (so with the verse tags really written within a single title)
- feel free to mail me directly if needed.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Arnaud</div>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 28 janv. 2025 à 21:33, DM Smith <<a href="mailto:dmsmith@crosswire.org">dmsmith@crosswire.org</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br id="m_-7897633411218368739lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jan 28, 2025, at 1:48 PM, Arnaud Vié <<a href="mailto:unas.zole%2Bavie@gmail.com" target="_blank">unas.zole+avie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><p dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Hi David,</p><p dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">The usage of "acrostic" in this case is indeed semantically incorrect.<span> </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">According to the OSIS specification, the correct markup for a psalm canonical title is<span> </span><br><title type="psalm" canonical="true"><br>and it is perfectly allowed to occur before the first verse.<br>The crosswire wiki mentions that, in this case, sword requires an additional attribute subType="x-preverse" on the title tag, though I'm not sure what the purpose of this tag is and if it affects your issue with searching.</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div>subType=“x-preverse” is added by osis2mod. No one writing OSIS should need to put that in. SWORD uses this to handle material that stands before the verse number.</div><div><br></div><div>Early on pre-verse material was a heading. Later it could be more complex.</div><div><br></div><div>In a SWORD frontend it does something like this pseudo code.</div><div>if (showingHeadings or verse.headingIsCanonical())</div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>output( verse.getHeading() )</div><div>output( verse.getVerseNumber() )</div><div>output( verse.getContent() )</div><div><br></div><div>Note, the above does not care if the module is OSIS, ThML, GBF, plain text, … <br><blockquote type="cite"><div><p dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">As a side note, in many bibles, as you say, some psalm titles span several verses, and therefore the OSIS spec allows <verse/> tags in the middle of a psalm title - though currently sword does not support it because osis2mod does not transform the <title> tag to milestoned form.</p></div></blockquote>Right. It doesn’t fit the pattern above. </div><div><br></div><div>What module exhibits this multi-verse title and in which Psalm? I’d like to take a look at it.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div><p dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Regards,</p><p dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Arnaud</p><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 28 janv. 2025, 13:12, David Haslam <<a href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com" target="_blank">dfhdfh@protonmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Thanks John,<br><br><u>Aside</u>: I'm puzzled by the use of<span> </span><b>type="acrostic"</b><span> </span>when the 125 Psalms with canonical titles are nothing to do with acrostics,<span> </span><i>per se</i>. Surely, that attribute should be reserved for the 22 stanza headings in Psalm 119 ?<br><br>There are Alternative Versifications in which the canonical Psalm titles are assigned to verse 1 (or in a few cases to verses 1 & 2) with subsequent verse numbers being offset by +1 (or +2).<br>I was not enquiring about modules that are for Bible versions like that.<br><br>In the KJV and many other modules, the Psalm titles proper are<span> </span><u>before</u><span> </span>the start of verse 1.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><div>Best regards,<br><br>David</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div>Sent with<span> </span><a href="https://proton.me/mail/home" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">Proton Mail</a><span> </span>secure email.</div></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></div><div>On Tuesday, January 28th, 2025 at 11:17 AM, Johan Marais <<a href="mailto:johan.marais@messianic.co.za" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">johan.marais@messianic.co.za</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><div><p style="margin-bottom:6pt">David.</p><p style="margin-bottom:6pt">In our translation I set Ps 6:1 as:</p><p style="margin-bottom:6pt"><span id="m_-7897633411218368739cid:image003.png@01DB7187.082A5FC0"><image003.png></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:6pt">And a ‘normal’ search in Xiphos 4.2.1 returns 7 results:</p><p style="margin-bottom:6pt"><span id="m_-7897633411218368739cid:image002.png@01DB7186.EAE0A9B0"><image002.png></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:6pt"><span>Regards,</span></p><p style="margin-bottom:6pt"><span>Johan Marais</span></p><div style="margin-bottom:6pt"><span> </span><br></div><div align="center" style="text-align:center"><hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"></div><p><span lang="EN-US">-----Original Message-----<br>From: sword-devel <<a href="mailto:sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sword-devel-bounces@crosswire.org</a>> On Behalf Of David Haslam<br>Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2025 10:45<br>To: sword-devel mailing list <<a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>><br>Subject: [sword-devel] Canonical Psalm titles and SWORD search?</span></p><div> <br></div><p>I just tried to search for the word 'Neginoth' using Xiphos.</p><div> <br></div><p>There were no results found!</p><div> <br></div><p>This word occurs in the canonical Psalm title for Ps.6 and five other Psalms.</p><div> <br></div><p>"To the chief Musician on Neginoth upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."</p><div> <br></div><p>In view of the fact that canonical Psalm titles are translated from the original Hebrew, ought it not to be within the scope of SWORD search?</p><div> <br></div><p>Or is this merely a shortcoming of Xiphos?</p><div> <br></div><p>cf. Xiphos Advanced Search dialog allows search scope to look in footnotes, but there's no such option for titles.</p><div> <br></div><p>Of course, many Bible versions have non-canonical headings throughout the module, yet I'm not concerned with such in asking this question here.</p><div> <br></div><p>Best regards,</p><div> <br></div><p>David</p><div> <br></div><p>Sent with Proton Mail secure email.</p><p>_______________________________________________</p><p>sword-devel mailing list:<span> </span><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">sword-devel@crosswire.org</span></a><span> </span><a href="http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</span></a></p><p>Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</p></div></blockquote><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>sword-devel mailing list:<span> </span><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a><br><a href="http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a><br>Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page<br></blockquote></div><span id="m_-7897633411218368739cid:ii_194ae327f025b16b21"><image002.png></span><span id="m_-7897633411218368739cid:ii_194ae327f02692e332"><image003.png></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">sword-devel mailing list:<span> </span></span><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><a href="http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</span></div></blockquote></div><br></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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