<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:garamond,serif;font-size:large">And there now appear to be several editions available from the Digital Bible Library (the source for both Michael and my editions.) I don't know from which I started without text checking... <br><br><a href="https://thedigitalbiblelibrary.org/whats-inside/">https://thedigitalbiblelibrary.org/whats-inside/</a><br><br>To see the editions, search for "Segond"... there isn't an easy way to share the search result. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:garamond,serif;font-size:large"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 9:26 AM Michael H <<a href="mailto:cmahte@gmail.com">cmahte@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:garamond,serif;font-size:large">And this is the work from Michael Johnson's <a href="http://ebible.org" target="_blank">ebible.org</a> <br><br><a href="https://ebible.org/Scriptures/details.php?id=fraLSG" target="_blank">https://ebible.org/Scriptures/details.php?id=fraLSG</a></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 9:25 AM Michael H <<a href="mailto:cmahte@gmail.com" target="_blank">cmahte@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:garamond,serif;font-size:large">FYI: <br><br>I made a French Segond which contains much peripheral text (longer titles, second titles, cross references, etc.) in addition to the scripture. It's based on the UBS source (meaning as far as I know it's based on the actual editions printed by the United Bible Society since 1910, and not on OCR / Internet editions.) If I remember correctly, my specific reason for hosting it was that I removed the Strongs numbering. Besides that, I think I renamed some weird markers related to a 4th or 5th level of section title in one or more of the books. <br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:garamond,serif;font-size:large">Which leads me to think that Michael Johnson probably currently has access and hosts an LSG which is a more direct port of the UBS text that still contains Strongs numbering, and IS the versification of the original. <br><br>(my (for print and reading) edition, in USFM) <br><a href="https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm" target="_blank">https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm</a><br><br>Michael Johnson's LSG edition with Strongs numbering <br><a href="https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm" target="_blank">https://github.com/BibleCorps/FRA-B-LSG1910-PD-UBS/blob/main/p.sfm/FRA%5BB%5DLSG1910%5BPD%5DUBS-01-GEN.p.sfm</a><br><br>If these texts have issues, please mention it here, because the UBS should know. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 7:33 AM Arnaud Vié <<a href="mailto:unas.zole%2Bavie@gmail.com" target="_blank">unas.zole+avie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div><div>I support Cyrille's suggestion of using wikisource as the main source for public domain bibles when we have a good facsimile available.<br></div><div><br></div><div>For those not familiar with how wikisource works, the idea is that one can upload a facsimile (in djvu format), and then users can transcribe it into text and correct it page by page, making it easy to compare and potentially fix.<br></div><div>See for example this view, on one specific page of the Segond 1910, with the facsimile on the right and the transcribed text on the left : <a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu/8" target="_blank">https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu/8</a></div><div>Each page can be edited, then reviewed, corrected, and so on - and the wiki setup makes it easy to collaborate.</div><div>There is even the possibility with dedicated markup to annotate corrections to the original text : when the original text contains an obvious typo that you want to fix, you can edit your fix in while preserving the original text with specific markup, so that the document still keeps track of the original form and what was corrected.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Then, proper markup while transcribing the text allows wikisource to group it as proper books and chapters, format the text, integrate notes, etc.<br></div><div>See the full bible index here : <a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu" target="_blank">https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu</a></div><div>With the index page by page on the left, and the reconstructed text index by book on the right.</div><div><br></div><div>And then, as long as you ensure that your markup is consistent throughout your transcription of all pages of the same text (eg. titles of the same level are transcribed with the same markup, etc.), it is easy enough with my bible scraper to fetch all the books from wikisource and convert them into USFM or OSIS - as nicely advertised by Cyrille and Matěj above.</div><div>Which means that if anyone brought some corrections to the wikisource text over time, you can just re-run the scraper to get an updated USFM/OSIS document with these corrections - you don't need to maintain your own document separately.</div><div><br></div><div>The only question is how you intend to handle Strong's numbers, since they are not present in the original facsimile (at least not the one present on wikisource), and therefore not stored in wikisource.</div><div>This means my scraper can only output a document without Strong's numbers, and you'd have to inject them in post processing with another tool - but from your message above it seems you already have what you need for this.</div><div><br></div><div>If you want to try going into this direction, I can easily write a small scraper configuration file for the Segond version currently available on wikisource so that you can try it out.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Arnaud<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mer. 6 nov. 2024 à 09:27, Fr Cyrille <<a href="mailto:fr.cyrille@tiberiade.be" target="_blank">fr.cyrille@tiberiade.be</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Le 06/11/2024 à 00:48, yvand a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Thank you all for your answers!<br>
</p>
<p>I think if we can get the text (which is in public domain) from
a well-known bible editor, it is interesting and easier.
Currently the version Segond 1910 exists in different versions
(differences in notes/titles, maybe also in accents Ésaü/Esaü ?)
and it is interesting to know to what it corresponds. We can
still share typos upstream or/and use a patch to fix typos, and
update wikisource text.<br>
</p>
<p>If wikisource is the source, we need to know if and what paper
edition it matches exactly. If the reader can refer to a paper
edition, it is interesting. From where will come the text and
notes in wikisource? Which choices for notes/titles?<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
Personally, I don't know, but you can check for yourself if the <a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Fichier:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu" target="_blank">facsimile</a>
is correct. I know that a contributor has searched long and hard for
this facsimile. I sincerely think that wikisource is the best place.
We no longer need to ask anyone for the right to use the text (even
in the public domain). What's more, Matej beat me to it: Arnaud's
tool is absolutely incredible in its ability to convert to usfm or
osis. I invite you to try it out. What's more, Arnaud is very
responsive and saved me a lot of work. I now have 3 bibles in French
on wikisource, the Glaire, the Giguet and the Crampon.<br>
<br>
Now the text on wikisource only has the titles for some books. It
remains to add the notes/crossreferences. But if you have a text
with notes, it can be quite easy to download the wiki text and add
the notes.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu" target="_blank">https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_Sainte_Bible,_trad._Segond,_ed._1910.djvu</a><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p> </p>
<p>Personally, I found domcox's proposition interesting.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I connected to DBL and found 2 different projects :<br>
</p>
<p>- "Français Louis Segond 1910" (last archive <span>2020-12-15)</span></p>
<p>- "Louis Segond 1910 Original Corrected (Public Domain
version)" (last archive <span>2024-08-01) ("La Sainte Bible par
Louis Segond 1910. Société Biblique britannique et étrangere.
Texte historique, références corrigées en 2019." "Ce qu'il y a
de nouveau dans l'édition actuelle, ce sont surtout les
parallèles. Là où ces parallèles rendaient superflues les
notes de M. Segond, celles-ci ont été supprimées. De meme, les
notes qui exprimaient une opinion théologique, ou qui
présentaient un commentairs sur le texte, ont été laissés de
cote, conformement aux statuts de la Société, qui excluent de
ses éditions de Écritures des notes de ce genre.")<br>
</span></p>
<p>Both are published by British & Foreign Bible Society</p>
<p>But the access seem not public. As this Bible is in public
domain, I guess they will share with us if we ask.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Maybe Michael can help us to how the source of his module and
how he did it? Is it based on DBL? If so which project and what
tool do you use? from USX or USFM export?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>For versification, I agree with domcox's remark, we can keep
the original versification. I can convert from our versification
(WLC for OT / NA for NT) to the segond versification with a
script.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>If we go that way, I guess we need to do those steps:<br>
</p>
<p>1. Access DBL, export data (text, notes, titles if present) in
USX or USFM from Paratext</p>
<p>2. Convert to OSIS (better for sword and required because USX
and USFM do not support Strong's number, isn't it ?)<br>
</p>
<p>3. Add Strong's numbers (= add <w> tags on words) : for
this, I can work to match exactly the text from the previous
OSIS in our database, and develop a tool to add the last version
of our Strong's numbers on it.</p>
<p>4. Update sword module<br>
</p>
<p>The last two steps (3. and 4.) will be regularly relaunched,
because we do corrections on Strong's numbers regurlarly. It is
still a work in progress, but I think the work is already not so
not too bad.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>@Fr Cyrille : We need to exchange by email (not here) if and
how we can help you to add Strong's numbers on your néo-crampon
version. Our initial assignment tool (for Strong's numbers) has
gathered dust and requires french lemmatization and proper
versification versions with the WLC or NA to be effective. Can
you send me a mail in French, with more details (what is this
new version? is it close to other French versions other than
Crampon? what is the actual format you use? which
versification?…).<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>yvand<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>Le 05/11/2024 à 19:38, domcox a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">yvand
<a href="mailto:yvand.sword@gmail.com" target="_blank"><yvand.sword@gmail.com></a>
writes: <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> <br>
For Segond 1910, the text is in public domain. I used mod2imp
to get the text from the FreSegond (Crosswire) module months <br>
ago. The only changes we made are about versification. Indeed
all our texts use the same versification (based on WLC, for OT
= <br>
German in sword), so the text matches the original (hebrew WLC
or greek MT/WH) one and we can easily compare <br>
translations. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
As lot of people still read the printed French Segond 1910 or
derivatives, I think it's very important to match the printed <br>
versification. Regular readers generally view Bible software
with not matching versifications as second-rate software. <br>
We have a matching Bible Segond versification, let's keep it
that way. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">In the past, the FreLSG module had
Strong's numbers. If I am correct (see discussion "Strong
numbers for Louis Segond" in <br>
2013/07), we do not have the authorization (but still
available in STEP) so this module has been removed or replaced
by <br>
FreSegond module (renamed ?). <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
In the past, the FreLSG had Strong's numbers. It was upgraded
later to a new version that was horrible, filled with errors <br>
and even containing deuteros that never existed in the Segond
Bible. <br>
<br>
This is why I made the FreSegond module, it was not an easy
task. The Segond Bible is everywhere on the Web, but it looks
like <br>
all sites use the same source, and it's not accurate. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The fraLSG1910eb (F10) module is a more
recent one, available in e-bible repo with headings, WoC and
Strong's numbers. It <br>
seems to be a work in progress for Strong's numbers. They are
not available for all books. I compare Strong's numbers <br>
affectations for the first verses of Genesis 1 (see attached
screenshot) but there are errors in this module. On the left
this <br>
module, on the right our data (<a href="https://concordance.bible/Sg1910/Gen/1/" target="_blank">https://concordance.bible/Sg1910/Gen/1/</a>).
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
If I remember well, Michael have access to the DBL, so his
module is certainly based on the official Public Domain version,
<br>
edited by the Alliance Biblique Française (<a href="https://lire.la-bible.net/bible/LSG/GEN.1" target="_blank">https://lire.la-bible.net/bible/LSG/GEN.1</a>)
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">So I contact all of you (especially
actual maintainers of Segond 1910 modules and French users)
what would be the <br>
best way of giving our Strong's numbers for Segond 1910 in a
sword module. I don't know who is concerned or interested <br>
that's why I send to the mailing list. <br>
<br>
As there is already many existing Segond 1910 sword module, it
guess it would not be a good idea of creating a new one. On <br>
one side, as our text is based from FreSegond module, it might
be a good idea of updating this module with Strong's numbers <br>
(the only difference is versification). On the other hand, the
fraLSG1910eb module offers Strong's numbers but our data seems
<br>
more accurate and complete, so it could be interesting of
updating this module. In any case, it would be important to
submit <br>
updates regularly for Strong's numbers. <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think the best option for this module should be: <br>
<br>
1. Have access to the DBL version <br>
2. Update the current CrossWire module from that source with
footnotes, comments and cross-references, keeping the original
versification <br>
3. Add Strong's numbers <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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