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--></style></head><body lang=RU link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Sorry I do not remember all details of previous discussions, I have seen some text data with verse to verse mappings on last discussions, but I cant remember where. I would be happy if we approve cannon definition with mappings that is appropriate for JSword, for Sword cannon_*.h files ill be generated from them anyway, I would write such python converter or process existing data to that format.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Could you point me where sword-tools contain mapping definitions, I do not see.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Blessings.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0cm'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:scribe@crosswire.org">Troy A. Griffitts</a><br><b>Sent: </b>10 мая 2020 г. 20:53<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping (SWORD + JSword)</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>Applied. Thank you Костя!</p><p>Do you remember if there was a particular obstacle preventing us from sharing mapping data between SWORD and JSword. It's been so long and I wasn't deeply involved in those discussion. It sure would be nice to keep these these mapping definitions in sword-tools in some format from which both SWORD and JSword can generate their necessary data structures.</p><p>Blessings. Hope you've been well.</p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 5/10/20 9:23 AM, Костя Маслюк wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hi! All cannon files you mentioned are used to know, the only case is nrsva that was not finished probably because base v11n, nrsv was left for testing. I will review that v11ns again, in month or two. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>By the way I see following patches not applied.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>And it will be super helpful if someone point me the texts best to compare, for base v11n I use KJVA, but I do not sure about text to use for NRSVA (NRSV too)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Blessings</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:scribe@crosswire.org">Troy A. Griffitts</a><br><b>Sent: </b>6 мая 2020 г. 22:28<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>; <a href="mailto:kostyamaslyuk@gmail.com">Костя Маслюк</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping (SWORD + JSword)<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Dear John, Jamie, and Костя,</p><p>First, I want to say that DM Smith has also a versification mapping implementation in JSword, which was, and likely still is a foundational part of STEP. I don't know if STEP uses JSword's versification mapping facility or if it implements its own. There were collaboration efforts around July 2014 to get SWORD and JSword to use the same data sources, but I am not sure how that ended up.</p><p>I don't remember all the details of Костя's representation for a mapping system, but we pushed pretty hard to have it handle most all scenarios and doing a quick search it looks like Костя and others have built mappings for these systems:</p><p>[scribe@localhost include]$ grep -l mapping sword/include/canon*<br>canon_calvin.h<br>canon_darbyfr.h<br>canon_nrsv.h<br>canon_segond.h<br>canon_synodal.h<br>canon_vulg.h</p><p>If you are familiar with mapping systems (and it sounds like John and Jamie all are) and have a look at the mapping data in any of the above files as examples, I am sure you will understand how Костя is representing data for his implementation.</p><p>All this to say, it would be really great if any of you might be interested in contributing mapping data to our other supported versification systems which don't yet have the mapping implemented:</p><p>[scribe@localhost include]$ grep -L mapping sword/include/canon_*<br>canon_abbrevs.h <- ignore this one<br>canon_catholic2.h<br>canon_catholic.h<br>canon_german.h<br>canon_kjva.h<br>canon_leningrad.h<br>canon_luther.h<br>canon_lxx.h<br>canon_mt.h<br>canon_nrsva.h<br>canon_null.h<br>canon_orthodox.h<br>canon_synodalprot.h</p><p><a href="http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/">http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/</a></p><p>It would be a blessing to me and everyone who uses the engine.</p><p>Serving together,</p><p>Troy</p><p> </p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 5/6/20 10:20 AM, John Dudeck wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Greetings,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I have done quite a bit of content development for Logos, including Bibles that had versifications that did not fit any existing schemes in Logos.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Logos uses "verse maps", which are xml files that specify the mapping of every verse in a particular versification to every verse in each other versification. If a particular whole book matches the versification of some other existing versification, the verse map for that book can simply reference the existing versification. In use, the software is also able to infer mappings when going between two versifications that aren't referenced directly. The verse maps have to be validated before they are incorporated, to avoid conflicting mappings.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The verse maps can handle such things as verses that are split differently in different versifications, and the headings in Psalms.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The downside of their system is that the verse maps have to be hard-compiled into a release of the software. They are not pluggable. I think pluggable verse maps is on their list of enhancements, but as far as I know the feature has never been developed. Maybe they aren't smart enough to figure it out. I don't know that I could figure it out either.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>John</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=528 height=2 style='width:5.5in;height:.0208in' id="Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1" src="cid:part5.C78DEAD0.81E5CFB1@crosswire.org"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Hi Tobias,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Remember that any libraries for STEP Bible would likely be oriented towards JSword rather than SWORD per se.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>David</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Sent from ProtonMail Mobile</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 17:04, Tobias Klein <</span><a href="mailto:contact@tklein.info"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> contact@tklein.info</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> > wrote:</span></p><p style='margin-left:25.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Hi Jamie,</span></p><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thanks. I had a look at the data, that’s quite complex! Even a bit intimidating ...</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I suppose STEPBible has some library functions that parse this data?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Can you point me to any APIs?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Tobias</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:51.05pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Am 06.05.2020 um 15:04 schrieb Jamie <</span><a href="mailto:araj@critos.co.uk"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> araj@critos.co.uk</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p style='margin-left:51.05pt'> </p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Tobias,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Not sure that this exactly answers your question, but just in case it’s relevant, Tyndale House have various public domain information available, including material on alternative versification schemes. The reversification material gives details of how to map LXX, MT and Vulgate schemes on to NRSVA (and also addresses some other schemes which are perhaps less frequently encountered). It also caters for common variants which basically follow one of these schemes, but which have certain verses split up into subverses. You can find the data at :-</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data/blob/master/TVTMS%20-%20Tyndale%20Versification%20Traditions%20with%20Methodology%20for%20Standardisation%20for%20Eng%2BHeb%2BLat%2BGrk%2BOthers%20-%20TyndaleHouse.com%20STEPBible.org%20CC%20BY-NC.txt"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data/blob/master/TVTMS%20-%20Tyndale%20Versification%20Traditions%20with%20Methodology%20for%20Standardisation%20for%20Eng%2BHeb%2BLat%2BGrk%2BOthers%20-%20TyndaleHouse.com%20STEPBible.org%20CC%20BY-NC.txt</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>If you do want to make use of it, I’d be very happy to try to answer any questions.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>ARA “Jamie” Jamieson</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> Tobias Klein [</span> <a href="mailto:contact@tklein.info"><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>mailto:contact@tklein.info</span></a> <span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>] <br><b>Sent:</b> 05 May 2020 21:19<br><b>To:</b> SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <</span> <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org"><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>sword-devel@crosswire.org</span></a> <span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>><br><b>Subject:</b> [sword-devel] Versification Mapping</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Hi,</span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I would like to ask a question that I was planning to ask for a while already ... <br>What's the recommended solution of mapping different versification systems?</span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>And what working implementations for this are already out there? <br><br>I realize that my understanding of versifications has been a bit limited and that's visible in Ezra Project's implementation of the mapping. I am currently only differentiating between two versification systems, namely the English versification (used in most/all (?) English translations) and the Hebrew versification (used in most modern German translations).</span></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>It's been a few years since I looked into this and I think this has been my source (SBL Handbook of Style) <br></span><a href="https://books.google.de/books?id=M_upBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=appendix+english/hebrew/greek+versification&source=bl&ots=CXVR0J6YrI&sig=ACfU3U3hEIPgNxmmUQW1kZJaRAtHl78L-g&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilyoPUwp3pAhUrzqYKHVk4BtIQ6AEwAXoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=appendix%20english%2Fhebrew%2Fgreek%20versification&f=false"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>https://books.google.de/books?id=M_upBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=appendix+english/hebrew/greek+versification&source=bl&ots=CXVR0J6YrI&sig=ACfU3U3hEIPgNxmmUQW1kZJaRAtHl78L-g&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilyoPUwp3pAhUrzqYKHVk4BtIQ6AEwAXoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=appendix%20english%2Fhebrew%2Fgreek%20versification&f=false</span></a></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>My current approach in Ezra Project to map between English and Hebrew versification is the following:</span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101'>I use "absolute verse numbers" in each book.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101'>I have mapping tables that basically define offsets for the "absolute verse numbers" (see implementation </span><span style='font-family:Symbol;color:#010101'><a href="https://github.com/tobias-klein/ezra-project/blob/master/models/versereference.js#L177"> <span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>here</span></a></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101'>).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101'>The versification (currently only English or Hebrew) of the respective translation is detected based on some simple dynamic tests when opening it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101'>I have functions to convert between one and the other "absolute verse numbers" based on the mapping.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101'>Verse Reference objects are stored both with the English and Hebrew absolute verse numbers and these objects are used for assigning tags, notes, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>This works fairly well when using English translations and German translations. The result is for example that tags that were assigned to verses of an English translation still show up correctly for the verses in a German translation. This is particularly visible in Psalms.<br><br>How flawed is my current approach described above?<br>How do other frontends do it?<br>Have there been plans to somehow integrate some sort of mapping functionality into the SWORD engine?<br><br>Best regards,<br>Tobias</span></p><div style='margin-left:51.05pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>sword-devel mailing list: </span><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org"> <span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>sword-devel@crosswire.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <br></span><a href="http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> <br></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:25.5pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>John Dudeck</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Programmer at Editions Cle Lyon, France</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:john.dudeck@sim.org">john.dudeck@sim.org</a> <a href="mailto:john@editionscle.com">john@editionscle.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>--</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"The best time to be alive is when things look the worst." -- Dale Losch</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>sword-devel mailing list: <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a></pre><pre><a href="http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel">http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a></pre></blockquote><pre style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</pre><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>sword-devel mailing list: <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a></pre><pre><a href="http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel">http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a></pre></blockquote><pre style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'>Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</pre><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>