Hi Troy, <br><br>I think I understand how it is running, and I think , while this is a significant change, availability of a strict mode would be immensely helpful<br><br>Not least for module making. But also for localised editions of any of the front-ends. <br><br>Peter<br><br><br><br><br>Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird autocorrects.<div class="quote" style="line-height: 1.5"><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Localized parsing symbols [was: C++ volunteer]<br>From: "Troy A. Griffitts" <scribe@crosswire.org><br>To: sword-devel@crosswire.org<br>CC: <br><br><br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><html>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/19 9:59 AM, Cyrille wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:f1d01809-1e50-bedd-8f0a-17c5c0128da6@gmail.com">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 28/05/2019 18:50, Troy A.
Griffitts ha scritto:<br>
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cite="mid:db221781-da83-e8f5-536d-cdca50763f90@crosswire.org">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/19 9:24 AM, Cyrille wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:8c3cdc4f-eab7-4428-eb53-1cdbb60fdbc2@gmail.com">
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<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 28/05/2019 17:40, Troy A.
Griffitts ha scritto:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:4b825a74-137c-b4a5-1346-08cfebcb7d23@crosswire.org">
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<p>So, a little background surrounding why the logic is
difficult to work out a solution for this problem:</p>
<p>The current verse parser, which works fairly well, always
has 3 sets of possibilities in view:</p>
OSISRef<br>
Current Locale<br>
English
<p>The parser needs to handle any of these three, typically
in the preference order listed above. The issue with
changing out symbols while parsing is that some symbols
(notoriously the comma) are used for different purposes
across these 3 sets.</p>
<p>One might think that localized output might be easier
than parsing, e.g., once parsed, we could at least output
the reference: Jn 3,16. The problem here is that what the
engine outputs it also expects to be able to parse.</p>
<p>While we would like to solve this problem, it isn't as
simple as adding to the locale files: <br>
</p>
<p>ChapterVerseSeparator=,</p>
<p>RangeSeparator=-</p>
<p>ListSeparator=.</p>
<p>This would be enough to define the locale, but not solve
the problem. We would need a fundamental change in how
parsing is done, e.g., explicitly telling the parser,
"Hey, I'm sending you localized input, so don't guess.
You can count on the symbols I'm sending you to be
localized" Right now everyone has the convenience of just
passing any of the 3 sets of parsing text listed above and
theparser just figuring it out-- with the caveat that
chapter, range, and list separators are not localizable.</p>
<p>Hope this gives some background, <br>
</p>
</blockquote>
Yes thank you, but I just don't understand why it is already
possible with two separator (. and : ) and then not only with
one? Maybe I can't understand it because it is too much hard
(technicaly) for me ;)<br>
</blockquote>
<p>Because ':' is unambiguous between all three. '.' retains
OSIS semantics and is book and chapter separator between all
three. The problem comes when you have an entry like:</p>
<p>Jn 3,16</p>
<p>Currently, the parser will understand this as John chapter 3
and chapter 16. You obviously would want this to be chapter
3, verse 16. The question is, when does the parser decide it
is a list separator and when does it decide it is a
chapter/verse separator. <br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
No comma in the "catholic" model is never a list separator. If
comma is used as chapter/verse separator then the semi-columns is
used as list separator.<br>
EG:<br>
Jn 3,16-20; 5,3.8 : Confusion is not possible. <br>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes Cyrille, I believe you are missing my explanation that
currently the parser currently operates assuming it must parse 3
types of references:</p>
<p>OSIS Ref</p>
<p>Locale Specific</p>
<p>English</p>
<p>It is ambiguous currently because of this-- not because ',' is
ambiguous in your locale; I understand it is not. ',' is
ambiguous when the parser doesn't know which of the above 3 types
of reference you are sending it. One solution to fix the problem
would be to tell the parser when asking it to parse text: "This
text is strictly locale formatted text. It is not OSIS. It is
not English." This though, would require changes to EVERY client
of the engine, and likely many places in the engine which
currently count of any output from the parser to be reparsable--
they would need to now know if the output was OSIS, English, or
Locale-specific so they could pass that on to any reparsing that
needed to be performed.<br>
</p>
<p>Hope this helps explain.</p>
<p>If not, then yes, chalk it up to "too technical" :)</p>
<p>Hope you are well,</p>
<p>Troy<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f1d01809-1e50-bedd-8f0a-17c5c0128da6@gmail.com">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:db221781-da83-e8f5-536d-cdca50763f90@crosswire.org">
<p> It is ambiguous unless you tell the parser: "This is
strictly locale formatted text. It is not OSIS. It is not
English."</p>
<p>Hope this helps clarify.</p>
<p>Troy<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8c3cdc4f-eab7-4428-eb53-1cdbb60fdbc2@gmail.com">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4b825a74-137c-b4a5-1346-08cfebcb7d23@crosswire.org">
<p>Troy</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/28/19 6:10 AM, David
Haslam wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AejTswFv_Xhf1HpxEKjuYDZubt6zt_d9AWr7ZvMQVxzjpEVWOOi0Vvgc0QJImrFbSCCSrajjsW90FiC-e7cuPKHPXFRi-z0L5VLg_2moZ1A=@protonmail.com">
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charset=UTF-8">
<div>OK - but my observations were not entirely
irrelevant. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some front-ends never need the user to enter a
reference in an edit box. Navigation is done entirely
via menu selections or clicking search results etc. </div>
<div>AFAICT this is true of PocketSword. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Other front-ends are designed at the opposite
extreme. All navigation is done through an edit box.
This is true (eg) of STEP Bible. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="protonmail_mobile_signature_block">
<div>Sent from ProtonMail Mobile</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 13:54, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net" moz-do-not-send="true">refdoc@gmx.net</a>
<<a href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">refdoc@gmx.net</a>> wrote:
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"> Sorry,
David, that is a complete misunderstanding. Modules need
osisref. There is and will be no need to do anything to
the modules. This is about the engine parser to read
references locale appropriately. <br>
<br>
Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and
weird autocorrects.
<div class="quote" style="line-height: 1.5"><br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] C++ volunteer<br>
From: David Haslam <br>
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <br>
CC: <br>
<br>
<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Parsing native references is not a simple task,
as we know from the fact that adyeths orefs.py was
kicked into touch indefinitely. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And that’s even when punctuation marks are
defined in the specified configuration file. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Unless we might consider the possibility of
adding keys to module .conf files that define the
module specific native reference punctuation marks
and separators. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That could be a huge undertaking, considering
the need to maintain backwards compatibility. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And it’s not as if it really is module specific
entirely. A user can be switching between modules
with different languages, yet would need the
current reference to always work, no matter what. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="protonmail_mobile_signature_block">
<div>Sent from ProtonMail Mobile</div>
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</div>
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 12:10, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">refdoc@gmx.net</a> <<a
href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">refdoc@gmx.net</a>>
wrote:
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
The improvement request for allowing commas in
references... adding commas in the suggested form
would make millions of currently valid Anglo
references invalid. The problem is a much wider
one, references should be localised in their
punctuation too. I am not sure how difficult this
would be, but I guess we could make a start by
defining what punctuation is used for which
purpose , and then take it from there. <br>
<br>
Cyrille, maybe start a page on the wiki and start
thinking there. <br>
<br>
Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness,
typos and weird autocorrects.
<div class="quote" style="line-height: 1.5"><br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] C++ volunteer<br>
From: Cyrille <br>
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <br>
CC: <br>
<br>
<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hello Richard,<br>
Welcome!<br>
<span class="tlid-translation translation"
lang="en"><span title="" class="">May I make
a very selfish proposal to Richard who
offers his help.</span> <span title=""
class="">There are two issues that I
really want to be resolved.</span> <span
title="" class="">One of which
particularly handicaps Catholic users,
(but I discovered today that the issue
wasn't been reported!!! I just did it): <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://tracker.crosswire.org/browse/API-216"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://tracker.crosswire.org/browse/API-216</a><br>
</span></span>And the second: <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://tracker.crosswire.org/projects/API/issues/API-180"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://tracker.crosswire.org/projects/API/issues/API-180</a><br>
<br>
<span class="tlid-translation translation"
lang="en"><span title="" class="">If there
are more important things that I am not
able to estimate not being a developer, I
would have tried my luck ;)</span></span><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 28/05/2019
01:38, Troy A. Griffitts ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Richard, sorry, I meant to give you the link to our tracker:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tracker.crosswire.org" moz-do-not-send="true">https://tracker.crosswire.org</a>
On 5/27/19 4:32 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Welcome, Richard!
I would start at 2 places:
First, have a look at our tracker here. We are not very (very not)
disciplined at keeping it current. Skimming through there and
commenting on anything that looks interesting, or even cleaning a few
things up in there that you confirm are no longer a problem might be a
useful exercise to get you poking around at internals and would be a
blessing for us. Our modus operandi as of late is to create a new unit
test in sword/tests/testssuite/ which fails at the bug and then once
fixed, the test should pass and we leave the test around to be sure we
don't regress. We can always use more tests in our tests suite.
Next, we have the intention to modularize our search engines support and
search types. Right now, SWModule (which represents a Bible) implements
our SWSearchable interface, which is fine, but right now it has a bunch
of #ifdef logic and switch statements to take different code paths
depending on which search engine is compiled into SWORD and which search
type is specified. This was fine initially, but has grown to such that
we now support spaghetti in there. It should probably simply have a set
of SWSearchable objects in a map<SEARCH_TYPE, SWSearchable> and proxy
the search request to the appropriate SWSearchable impl based on what
types are registered for the module. This would allow us to implement
new types and register them with modules which support special search
types, e.g., advanced Hebrew Morphology searching. That's the general
idea anyway.
You should probably become familiar with SWFilter and how we use these
throughout the engine. These prepare a buffer for particular
objectives. We have RenderFilters, EncodingFilters, StripFilters, ...
The last prepares an SWModule entry for searching by, typically,
stripping out all markup and leaving only a plaintext buffer which can
be searched. We have some special code in the SWModule::search
spaghetti which takes Greek and Hebrew modules and turns buffers into a
series of Strongs#@MorphCode Strong#@MorphCode ... which allows regex
searches to do some advanced morph searching... like: Find this strongs
number, any morphology, followed by a any verb withing 2 words. You
have to be pretty familiar with the Strong#@MorphCode syntax to
formulate something like that, but the idea is that a frontend could
have a nice UI to help a user come up with some creative searches.
Anyway, these should all be probably modulized out by renaming the
StripFilter concept to SearchFilter, and then pushing all this special
code out to SearchFilter impls which do these special things...
Finally, an objective of all this search modularization is also to break
out the code required to create search indexes for each of the search
engines we support. Ideally, we should be able to support the same
searches either as an indexed or brute force search. The same code
which iterates a module, prepares each entry, and pushes that entry to
the search engine, building the search index, should also work for a
brute force search-- iterating the module, preparing each entry for the
search engine.. and then performing a check on that buffer to see if it
matches the search expression.
I hope this gives you a few things to think about. It has been good for
me to refresh thoughts on all of this. Have a look and let me know what
you think.
Welcome! Looking forward to sharing in service together,
Troy
On 5/27/19 1:09 PM, Richard Smith wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi,
My name's Richard Smith. I'm a C++ software engineer with 10 years
experience in various industries. I was wondering if there was any
space for a volunteer. I've started taking a look at things (building
repos on Win/unix), but if there are specific things that are
required, within my ability, I'm happy to do that.
Best Regards
Richard Smith
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