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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi all,</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">let me try shed a bit more light onto
the underlying issue:<br>
The original text (in Paratext) has these verses in Romans
16:25-27. That's where the translators decided to have them. This
is marked with the annotateType "x-vsys-<b>source</b>"<br>
The versification of the text is SynodalProt, so to fit the
versification, these verses need to be in Romans 14:24-26. <br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The 'milestone type="x-vsys-movedto"'
construction is used to keep a link between the the position where
the verses needs to be to fit the versification and where they
have been in the original source (Paratext and in the printed
book).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The "osisID" marks the verse in the
proper versification(e.g. SynodalProt), whereas the "osisRef"
marks the position in the original source.<br>
For that reason, osisID can't be used again.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">The reason for the extra markup is to
keep the information about the location of the verse in the source
text (usfm, Paratext) in the osis file.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">IBT uses the OSIS files as basis for
conversions to many other formats (epub, GoBible, HTML...), so the
goal is to have the OSIS file as complete and extensive as
possible.<br>
For the conversion to the Sword module, this markup is stripped.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Many other translations have footnotes
in places like this, explaining that the verse is in a different
location on other manuscripts. Information in footnotes is aimed
at the end user, whereas this markup is for conversion purposes
only and is not to be seen by the user. Although it could be used
by front ends in the future e.g. to show the verses in their
source location (e.g. show these verses in Romans 16:25-27 instead
of Romans 14:24-26).</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Here's the relevant snippet again:<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><verse osisID="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25 Rom.14.26" sID="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25 Rom.14.26" type="x-vsys-fitted"/>
<milestone type="x-vsys-verse-start" annotateRef="Rom.14.23" annotateType="x-vsys-source"/>
Лекин бирәр йемәкликкә шәк кәлтүрүп туруп, йәнә шу йемәкликни йегән киши вижданиниң
әйиплишигә учрайду. Чүнки у киши өзи йегән йемәкликниң тоғра екәнлигигә ишәнч қилалмиди.
Тоғра екәнлигигә ишәнч йоқ һалда қилинған һәр қандақ иш гунадур.
</p> <milestone type="x-vsys-movedto" annotateRef="Rom.16.25" annotateType="x-vsys-source" osisRef="Rom.14.24"/>
<milestone type="x-vsys-movedto" annotateRef="Rom.16.26" annotateType="x-vsys-source" osisRef="Rom.14.25"/>
<milestone type="x-vsys-movedto"annotateRef="Rom.16.27" annotateType="x-vsys-source"osisRef="Rom.14.26"/>
<verse eID="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25 Rom.14.26" type="x-vsys-fitted"/>
<milestone type="x-vsys-verse-end" annotateRef="Rom.14.23" annotateType="x-vsys-source"/></pre>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Please let me know if that makes sense
or if you have other ideas, how to encode the information in a
better way.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kind regards<br>
<br>
Horst<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/17/2018 7:31 PM, David Haslam
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:n78_FJGHCamQw75dQG_KI-Kwlm57lncO2UdXj4NCuibBE8wDoe2gJtmvZbTm56TY2fgShO9yATstunCs243Hdw2P6LT-rlLWbiEiAxPClGk=@protonmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>Then append "!m" to the osisID value in each milestone.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>This would be somewhat similar to how we might use the fine
grain extension to give an ID to a title.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>It's still evident that osisRef was simply incorrect.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>David</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div id="protonmail_mobile_signature_block">Sent from ProtonMail
Mobile</div>
<div>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 14:20, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net">refdoc@gmx.net</a> <<a
href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">refdoc@gmx.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">You can not
have two elements sharing the same id
<br>
<br>
Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird
autocorrects.
<div class="quote" style="line-height: 1.5">
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------
<br>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] milestone element, osisRef
attribute
<br>
From: David Haslam
<dfhdfh@protonmail.com>
<br>
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
<sword-devel@crosswire.org>
<br>
CC:
<br>
<br>
<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px
0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color:
rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid;">Thanks
Peter,
<br>
<br>
I too pasted the passage into a new file and
reformated it. The screenshot is XML syntax
highlighted.
<br>
<br>
See
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfgzg0eyy48e422/Screenshot%202018-09-17%2013.58.57.png?dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfgzg0eyy48e422/Screenshot%202018-09-17%2013.58.57.png?dl=0</a><br>
<br>
I also changed the osisRef to osisID and moved this
attribute to become the first one in each of the three
milestones.
<br>
<br>
It becomes quite clear that the osisID value for each
is within the current passage, and thus merely marks
the location of the milestone.
<br>
<br>
Aside: The first milestone is different to the other
three.
<br>
<br>
I think it was simply a mistake to have used osisRef.
<br>
<br>
Using osisID makes proper sense and also becomes valid
to the schema.
<br>
<br>
Best regards,
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
<br>
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
<br>
<br>
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
<br>
On Monday, 17 September 2018 13:14, Peter Von Kaehne
<refdoc@gmx.net>wrote:
<br>
<br>
> To have some clearer understanding of what is
meant I have reformatted the snippet. Maybe this
helps others too.
<br>
>
<br>
>
<verse osisid="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25
Rom.14.26" sid="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25
Rom.14.26" type="x-vsys-fitted"></verse>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<milestone type="x-vsys-verse-start"
annotateref="Rom.14.23"
annotatetype="x-vsys-source"></milestone>
<br>
>
<br>
> Лекин бирәр йемәкликкә шәк кәлтүрүп туруп, йәнә
шу йемәкликни йегән киши вижданиниң
<br>
> әйиплишигә учрайду. Чүнки у киши өзи йегән
йемәкликниң тоғра екәнлигигә ишәнч қилалмиди.
<br>
> Тоғра екәнлигигә ишәнч йоқ һалда қилинған һәр
қандақ иш гунадур.
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<milestone type="x-vsys-movedto"
annotateref="Rom.16.25"
annotatetype="x-vsys-source" osisref="Rom.14.24"></milestone>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<milestone type="x-vsys-movedto"
annotateref="Rom.16.26"
annotatetype="x-vsys-source" osisref="Rom.14.25"></milestone>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<milestone type="x-vsys-movedto"
annotateref="Rom.16.27"
annotatetype="x-vsys-source" osisref="Rom.14.26"></milestone>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<verse eid="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25 Rom.14.26"
type="x-vsys-fitted"></verse>
<br>
>
<milestone type="x-vsys-verse-end"
annotateref="Rom.14.23"
annotatetype="x-vsys-source"></milestone>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
> I do think the underlying problem is best
solved with a footnote. At least this is what we do
in other places.
<br>
>
<br>
> Peter
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
> Gesendet: Montag, 17. September 2018 um 12:32
Uhr
<br>
> Von: "DM Smith" <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dmsmith@crosswire.org">dmsmith@crosswire.org</a>
<br>
> An: "David Haslam" <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com">dfhdfh@protonmail.com</a>,
"SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum"
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>
<br>
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] milestone element,
osisRef attribute
<br>
>
<br>
> Semantics:
<br>
> osisID marks the address of the current item.
<br>
> osisRef points the address of a different item
that the current item references.
<br>
> I think that the osis manual gives a suggested
mechanism for two v11ns in the same document. My
computer is in the shop and I cannot check.
<br>
> — DM Smith
<br>
> From my phone. Brief. Weird autocorrections.
<br>
> On Sep 17, 2018, at 3:16 AM, David Haslam
<dfhdfh@protonmail.com[mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com]>wrote:
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
> Thanks Horst for explaining.
<br>
>
<br>
> Why is osisRef used rather than osisID ?
<br>
>
<br>
> The latter would be valid to the schema.
<br>
>
<br>
> David
<br>
>
<br>
> Sent from ProtonMail Mobile
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 06:22, Horst
Sclemmer
<schlemmerhorst1731@gmail.com[mailto:schlemmerhorst1731@gmail.com]>wrote:Hi
all,
<br>
>
<br>
> It's good to see this discussion going on.
<br>
> I try to briefly explain the need for
having the osisRef in a milestone.
<br>
> As many people are able to read Russian,
most translations for languages
<br>
> in the former Soviet Union use the
SynadalProt versification. So, people
<br>
> comparing their translation with Russian
scriptures won't be confused.
<br>
> On the other hand most of the (former
Soviet Union) scriptures don't
<br>
> follow the versification in every detail.
<br>
> A very common difference is the problem you
see in the Uighur Cyrillic
<br>
> with Romans 14 and 16.
<br>
> As Peter already mentioned, there is an
anomalie with the last three
<br>
> verses of Romans 14 and 16. Most western
translations (KJV) follow
<br>
> manuscripts that have these verses in
Romans 16:25-27, whereas
<br>
> SynodalProt has them in Romans 14:24-26.
<br>
> Romans 16:25-27 seems to be the better
place to have them, so most
<br>
> Central Asian translations decided, not to
follow the SynodalProt
<br>
> versification here.
<br>
>
<br>
> The milestone types "x-vsys-..." and
annotateRef
<br>
> annotateTypes="x-vsys-..." are used to
reference these moved verses to
<br>
> the right verses.
<br>
> See
<br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/JohnAustinDev/osis-converters/blob/master/scripts/bible/osis2sourceVerseSystem.xsl">https://github.com/JohnAustinDev/osis-converters/blob/master/scripts/bible/osis2sourceVerseSystem.xsl</a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/JohnAustinDev/osis-converters/blob/master/scripts/bible/osis2sourceVerseSystem.xsl">https://github.com/JohnAustinDev/osis-converters/blob/master/scripts/bible/osis2sourceVerseSystem.xsl</a>]<br>
> for all the details and possible types.
<br>
> These milestone and annotateRef types are
already used in a lot of OSIS
<br>
> files for scriptures in the IBT repository
<br>
>
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ibt.org.ru/ftpmirror/pub/">http://ibt.org.ru/ftpmirror/pub/</a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ibt.org.ru/ftpmirror/pub/">http://ibt.org.ru/ftpmirror/pub/</a>]).
<br>
>
<br>
> I can remove the parts that are currently
not supported by the OSIS schema.
<br>
> But as this is a general solution to deal
with translations that vary
<br>
> from their versification, I would suggest
to take the effort to adjust
<br>
> the OSIS schema and add the osisRef
attribute to the milestone element.
<br>
>
<br>
> Kind regards
<br>
>
<br>
> Horst
<br>
>
<br>
> On 9/13/2018 6:21 PM, David Haslam wrote:
<br>
>
<br>
> > In the OSIS 2.1 Users Manual, for the
milestone element only three attribute names are
mentioned: type, n, marker
<br>
> > The osisRef attribute is currently
defined only for the following OSIS elements:
catchWord, chapter, div, figure, note, q,
reference
<br>
> > If we wish to enhance the CrossWire
updated OSIS schema, the request should be added
as a new subsection in this wiki page:
<br>
> >
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_211_CR">https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_211_CR</a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_211_CR">https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_211_CR</a>]<br>
> > What does the Uighur translation team
envisage as the practical use of osisRef in the
OSIS example given?
<br>
> > What would we expect SWORD to do with
it?
<br>
> > Best regards,
<br>
> > David
<br>
> > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
<br>
> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
<br>
> > On Thursday, 13 September 2018 10:01,
Peter von Kaehne
<refdoc@gmx.net[mailto:refdoc@gmx.net]>wrote:
<br>
> >
<br>
> > > Deal all,
<br>
> > > I am in the process of
uploading an update to our cyrillic Uygyur
<br>
> > > module.
<br>
> > > There are a few instances where
the new text does not validate due to
<br>
> > > use of osisRef in the milestone
element. The author asserts that
<br>
> > > osisRef should be possible
inside the milestone element and I can not
<br>
> > > see any reason indeed why it
should not - other than "the schema does
<br>
> > > not allow it". Below an
example. The textual background is a
manuscript
<br>
> > > anomaly in Romans 14 and 16,
where a couple of verses appear commonly
<br>
> > > at the end of Romans 16, but in
some manuscript in Romans 14.
<br>
> > > 30965
<verse osisid="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25
Rom.14.26" <br="">> > >
sID="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24 Rom.14.25
Rom.14.26" type="x-vsys-
<br>
> > > fitted"/>
<milestone type="x-vsys-verse-start"
annotateref="Rom.14.23" <br="">> >
>
annotateType="x-vsys-source"/>Лекин
бирәр йемәкликкә шәк кәлтүрүп
<br>
> > > туруп, йәнә шу йемәкликни
йегән киши вижданиниң әйиплишигә учрайду.
<br>
> > > Чүнки у киши өзи йегән
йемәкликниң тоғра екәнлигигә ишәнч
қилалмиди.
<br>
> > > Тоғра екәнлигигә ишәнч йоқ
һалда қилинған һәр қандақ иш
<br>
> > > гунадур.
<milestone type="x-vsys-movedto"
annotateref="Rom.16.25" <br="">> >
> annotateType="x-vsys-source"
osisRef="Rom.14.24"/>
<milestone type="x-<br>> >
> vsys-movedto"
annotateref="Rom.16.26"
annotatetype="x-vsys-source" <br="">>
> > osisRef="Rom.14.25"/>
<milestone type="x-vsys-movedto"
<br="">> > >
annotateRef="Rom.16.27"
annotateType="x-vsys-source"
<br>
> > >
osisRef="Rom.14.26"/>
<verse eid="Rom.14.23 Rom.14.24
Rom.14.25<br>> > >
Rom.14.26" type="x-vsys-fitted">
<milestone type="x-vsys-verse-end"
<br="">> > >
annotateRef="Rom.14.23"
annotateType="x-vsys-source"/>
<br>
> > > Any views? Should
the schema be updated or should
I reject the module
<br>
> > > in its current
form?
<br>
> > > Peter
<br>
> > > sword-devel
mailing list:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>]
<br>
> > >
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> > > Instructions to
unsubscribe/change your settings
at above page
<br>
> >
<br>
> > sword-devel mailing
list:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>]
<br>
> >
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> > Instructions to
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>
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Instructions to
unsubscribe/change your settings
at above page</milestone>
</verse>
</milestone>
</milestone>
</milestone>
</milestone>
</verse>
</refdoc@gmx.net[mailto:refdoc@gmx.net]>
</schlemmerhorst1731@gmail.com[mailto:schlemmerhorst1731@gmail.com]>
</dfhdfh@protonmail.com[mailto:dfhdfh@protonmail.com]>
</refdoc@gmx.net>
</blockquote>
</sword-devel@crosswire.org>
</dfhdfh@protonmail.com>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
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