<div dir="ltr">Yes agree .. except in the case where something being published a rote fact (facts cannot be copyrighted) .. and derivative works are their own case in copyright law. There's no dispute here.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:37 AM Peter Von Kaehne <<a href="mailto:refdoc@gmx.net">refdoc@gmx.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12.0px"><div>
<div>This matter has been discussed ad nauseam on our mailing list several years ago. Nothing has changed since.<br>
<br>
All written works including translations are copyrighted until the copyright expires. <br>
We need a permission by the copyright owner or the copyrioght owner licenses the text freely.</div>
<div>If we do not have a permission, nor is there a free license available, we will not publish the module.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Nothing complicated there. There are edge cases (publication in Ethiopia until recently or Iran until now being among them), this one is not one. The translations are safely within all limits of copyright expiry for the foreseeable future. So, if you want the module published, you need to go and do the legwork. Speak with publishers and find agreement. Ask them to write a letter to Troy or me that they agree with a module being made of their text. Until then please cease debating the matter here and please cease offering "test modules" on our list. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;padding:10px 0 10px 10px;border-left:2px solid #c3d9e5;word-wrap:break-word">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0"><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 10. September 2018 um 14:15 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Andrew T." <<a href="mailto:thulester@gmail.com" target="_blank">thulester@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>An:</b> "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <<a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [sword-devel] Dead Sea Scrolls copyright discussion</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div>
<div>
<div> I welcome honest discussion about it, I thirst for honest discussion about it, more than I thirst for censorship at least. I have looked into the copyright status of the DSS. What you say is partially correct. Each separate manuscript’s translations (as found in Discoveries in Judean Desert (DJD) or other sources) is held separately by DJD (or the other sources) according to the copyright expressed in each of the publication volumes. This copyright has been upheld by the Supreme Court of Israel.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you want details, here's a listing on a scroll by scroll basis:</div>
<div><a href="https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/scrolls_deadsea/inventory/cave01.htm" target="_blank">https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/scrolls_deadsea/inventory/cave01.htm</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>For example, the Genesis scroll and the Isaiah scroll:</div>
<div><b style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;font-size:medium"><font size="2">1Q1 (1QGen) <i>1QGenesis</i></font></b><font size="2" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial"> </font><sup style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><b>ß</b></font></sup> </div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial">D. Barthélemy, </span><i style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial">Discoveries in the Judaean Desert I</i><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial"> (DJD I) (Oxford 1955), 49-50, pl. VIII.</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><b style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;font-size:medium"><font size="2">1QIs<sup><i>a</i></sup> </font><i><font size="2">1QIsaiah<sup>a</sup> </font></i></b><sup style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial"><font size="2"><b>ß</b></font></sup></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial">M. Burrows (ed.) with the assistance of J. C. Trever and W. H. Brownlee, </span><i style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial">The Dead Sea Scrolls of St. Mark's Monastery</i><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial">, vol. I, pls. I-LIV.</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial">Now there are other translations of these scrolls, the above two are the most common and most widely used. </span>However, the textual content of the scrolls themselves in Hebrew or paleo-Hebrew, being rote fact, is not copyrightable.</div>
<div><a href="https://www.newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/are_facts_copyrighted" target="_blank">https://www.newmediarights.org/business_models/artist/are_facts_copyrighted</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Facts such as the “Boston Celtics lost to the Toronto Raptors with a score of 118-105” cannot be copyrighted, in Europe, N.America, or Russia. Chess games, and their movements cannot be copyrighted (there are cases of copyright disputes over the publishing of chess games that have established this). The writing on the scrolls is factual, not the product of modern scholarship. So the text itself can be published, by anyone, for any reason. This is the publishing of fact.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If there is to be discussion about copyright and the DSS the case of publishing original language copies, There should be no concern. There are publicly available copies of both manuscript images (can't use the images themselves though, need to transcribe from the images) and there are textual copies.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>From Peter's perspective, the issues surrounding the publication of the DSS in translation, because it involves copyright needs to sorted out in a way acceptable to this community. I agree. I would suggest taking exactly the same approach as Martin G. Abegg Jr., Peter Flint, Eugene Ulrich in their book 'The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English". This book is a derivative work, and Abegg, Flint and Ulrich credit the translators and copyright holder's explicitly. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Therefore for this community's concern to be addressed, what's needed is for Peter to understand on what basis Abegg, Flint, and Ulrich re-used the copyrighted translations of others; what the constraints of publishing derivative works are (possibly according to different jurisdictions); and forge a way ahead, or not according to best judgement and community discussion.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As for me, so long as there is transparency in these discussions, respect, due consideration and no bullying, of course Ill live within the standards of the community.</div>
<h1 class="m_-5241878553582750546gmail-a-size-large m_-5241878553582750546gmail-a-spacing-none" id="m_-5241878553582750546gmail-title" style="box-sizing:border-box;padding:0.0px;margin:0.0px;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:"Amazon Ember",Arial,sans-serif;font-size:21.0px;line-height:1.3"> </h1>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:06 AM Andrew T. <<a href="mailto:thulester@gmail.com" target="_blank">thulester@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1.0px rgb(204,204,204) solid;padding-left:1.0ex">
<div>Please, be patient and civil in this discussion, appreciating that copyright and biblical texts are both important and that controversy abounds when discussing both. Everyone's perspective is welcomed here:
<div> </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a> <a href="http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel" target="_blank">http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
sword-devel mailing list: <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a><br>
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page</blockquote></div>