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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello, DM.<br>
<br>
I agree that your interpretation of OSIS makes sense. However,
given that this interpretation is totally foreign to the
philosophy behind USFM and Paratext, and that automating a
transformation between the many hundreds of Bibles in USFM/USX
source and finer points of OSIS niceties is impractical, I'm
disinclined to do any more than I have done to reconcile the two
philosophies in the form of an automatic file conversion process.
As you said, the important thing is that it displays. It does.<br>
<br>
The vast majority of the World's Bibles are now available in USFM
and/or USX. (Those two formats are totally equivalent in content
and abilities, and conversion back and forth without loss happens
in Paratext.) OSIS would be dead to me if it weren't for the Sword
project. Polishing OSIS at this point seems to be a fruitless
exercise unless it is to improve compatibility with the winning
format. USFM/USX wins based on use, software support, and adoption
by the major Bible translation agencies of the world as well as by
significant open source projects. So, with apologies and all due
respect to the team that devised OSIS and helped refine it
(including myself), I think we can dispense with the illusion that
we can use OSIS without regard to how automated conversions from
USFM/USX happen. The "start fresh" idea sounded good at the time,
but so did the technical superiority of Betamax video tape over
VHS at one time. If we are to improve OSIS at all, it needs to be
towards better compatibility with the Bible translation world and
better interchange. That may or may not be harder than replacing
OSIS with something better.<br>
<br>
The USFM/USX philosophy is more like a word processor markup than
a tree-structured document. USFM doesn't mark sections or nest
them. It marks titles of various sorts and paragraphs/stanzas of
various sorts. It doesn't care about the relative ordering of
different levels of titles, or if a title corresponds to a
chapter. This is kind of how a word processing program works, but
a bit more semantic. It is a mix of semantic and presentational
markup. That is OK. It has a lot going for it: over 1400 Bible
translations, so far. I know the shortcomings of USFM as well as
anyone, working with it every day, but seriously, nothing else is
better over all. Not even USFX, because USFX hasn't been used by
many people besides myself.<br>
<br>
Anyway, the eBible.org repository is in "stable" maintenance mode,
right now. I'll update modules here and there, but I'm not going
to muck with the core USFM or USX -> USFX -> OSIS converter
for a while. My foreground task has shifted to another higher
priority project.<br>
<br>
On 09/22/2015 07:06 AM, DM Smith wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:47976369-2211-49C1-BE06-0A94EFD6168A@crosswire.org"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Re: title and the various attributes. The most important thing is
that it displays. Which it does. It may look funky under certain
circumstances. All depends on what the frontend expects as a
hierarchy of titles.
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For example:</div>
<div class="">main - the outermost title, typically the title of
a book</div>
<div class="">chapter - the main title of a chapter</div>
<div class="">no attr - a section title</div>
<div class="">sub - a sub-title of another title</div>
<div class="">continued - an additional line of the immediately
prior title<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Re: title and type=parallel, the OSIS manual
recommends as you have noted, but when it describes the
purpose of parallel it is otherwise. IMHO, one of those two
places is wrong or the document needs improvement.</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="page" title="Page 138">
<div class="layoutArea">
<div class="column">
<p class=""><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt;
font-family: 'TimesNewRomanPSMT'" class="">r </span><font
class="" size="3" face="TimesNewRomanPSMT">title[@type='parallel']/reference
</font><span style="font-family:
TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 12pt;" class="">r
- Heading - Parallel References</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="page" title="Page 121">
<div class="layoutArea">
<div class="column">
<ul class="">
<li style="font-size: 9.000000pt; font-family:
'OpenSymbol'" class="">
<p class=""><span style="font-size: 12.000000pt;
font-family: 'TimesNewRomanPS'; font-weight:
700" class="">parallel </span><span
style="font-size: 12.000000pt; font-family:
'TimesNewRomanPSMT'" class="">Use where
titles are given in alternative languages. </span></p>
</li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In looking at how SWORD and JSword frontends
handle this, I looked at Bible Desktop, Xiphos and
Eloquent. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In Bible Desktop, toggling references just
changes whether the link is active or not. So it looks good.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In Xiphos, footnotes are toggled, so it shows as
link text at all times. So it looks good.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">However, in Eloquent (successor to MacSword),
the titles are not shown at all. I think it is a bug in
Eloquent.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think both BD and Xiphos (SWORD? CSS?) would
do well to eliminate the space between immediately adjacent
titles.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In Him,</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>DM</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 21, 2015, at 9:37 PM, Kahunapule
Michael Johnson <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Kahunapule@ebible.org" class="">Kahunapule@eBible.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
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http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/21/2015 02:11 PM,
DM Smith wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:A61CAB1A-2482-4051-B6B6-1E49B3D66624@crosswire.org"
type="cite" class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">I found the following in eBible’s kud2008eb. The following is Matt.1.1.
<div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" sID="pv1"/><div sID="gen5" type="section"/><title canonical="false" type="sub">Yeisu Besinana ana mumugao </title><title type="parallel">(<reference osisRef="Luke.3.23">Luke 3:23-38</reference>) </title><div sID="gen6" type="x-p"/> <div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" eID="pv1"/>Laulele teina Besinana Yeisu ana mumugao vehabadi. Yeisu tubuna Deivida, na Deivida tubuna mugamugaina Abelaham.
The problem is that the osisRef is incomplete. It should be osisRef="Luke.3.23-Luke.3.38”.
The impact is that clicking on the reference in Bible Desktop, it only shows Luke 3:23.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
This is a known artifact of the current conversion
from human-readable references to machine readable
references. USFM doesn't directly handle reference
links, so I synthesize them on conversion to USFX,
which is then converted to OSIS. This will probably
be fixed eventually, but don't hold your breath
waiting for it. It probably involves rewriting the
code that does that, which is currently a set of 7
XSLT processes. I have a lot of higher priorities on
my work list. If you prefer, I could inhibit such
osisRef entries altogether until such time as I
might possibly get around to improving the reference
reading process. (It is kind of complicated, since
"human readable" actually means "human readable in
any of about 7,000 languages".) The alternative of
getting all of the translators (or anyone else) to
go back and manually enter machine-readable
references probably won't happen during this
century.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote
cite="mid:A61CAB1A-2482-4051-B6B6-1E49B3D66624@crosswire.org"
type="cite" class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">The following is just extra. It is in addition to the bug mentioned above.
It is also really odd that there is a second title that contains a parenthesized, inlined reference.
The type="sub” is meant to give a sub part of a title. Since there is no prior title, it shouldn’t be sub. As a plain title, it doesn’t need an attribute.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
That "sub" in the title probably came from \s
(section title), which could be (but isn't always)
under \ms (main section title). It does no harm, as
far as I can tell, and having it there covers the
case where \s follows \ms. Let's not move the goal
posts any more than we have to.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote
cite="mid:A61CAB1A-2482-4051-B6B6-1E49B3D66624@crosswire.org"
type="cite" class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">Also, the type=“parallel” is inappropriate. The OSIS manual gives that parallel is meant to provide the title in another language. The type sub is probably more appropriate. Or even type="continued” which means that this title continues the last.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Page Appendix F, page 138 of the OSIS User Manual
seems to disagree with you about the proper
conversion of the USFM \r tag.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote
cite="mid:A61CAB1A-2482-4051-B6B6-1E49B3D66624@crosswire.org"
type="cite" class="">
<pre class="" wrap="">Note that canonical=“false” is redundant. All titles by default are canonical=“false”.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Yes, it is. That is certainly not the only
redundancy. It is not harmful.<br class="">
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br class="">
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<p class=""><font class="">Aloha,<br class="">
<i class="">Kahunapule Michael Johnson</i></font></p>
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<p><font color="#000000">Aloha,<br>
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