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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Good morning, Troy and all!<br>
<br>
Welcome to July, 2015! I feel like a time traveler. I have seen
this day from far away. Now it is here.<br>
<br>
Here is the use case that is kind of like a herd of elephants in
the room: automated production of hundreds of Sword modules from
consistent source files. By "automated", I mean that a computer is
really busy, but the human volunteers are not overwhelmed with the
prospect of processing over 700 translations in less than a day or
two. And it isn't a problem if a dozen of those get revised (i.e.
more books of the Bible completed as translation work continues)
every month. It also isn't a problem if the sets of Scriptures
represented include single books of the Bible, small sets of
books, the New Testament, the whole Bible, or the whole Bible with
Deuterocanon/Apocrypha.<br>
<br>
It can be done, but not now. It needs to be done. The biggest
barrier to such mass production of modules is the versification
scheme hard-coding.<br>
<br>
The idea that we can "carefully examine each new versification to
determine which existing one it most closely adheres to" assumes
two things: (1) we have the volunteer time to do that, and (2) the
set of versifications we support is close to being exhaustive. I
doubt that either of those things are true. We have done a great
deal with volunteer labor, so far, but when I look at the pile of
unfinished work, I'm not convinced that is the best road.<br>
<br>
I don't actually care if we line all Bibles up to the same content
when they have different versification, although that would be
nice. I care that they can be displayed and searched. If no module
is created, they can't be displayed and searched in Sword front
ends.<br>
<br>
Of course, Sword isn't the only game in town. How relevant it is
depends on how well we adapt to current conditions and
opportunities. In the mean time, there are 680 freely
redistributable Bible translations in various formats, including
Sword-ready OSIS, at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://eBible.org/Scriptures/">http://eBible.org/Scriptures/</a>. You can read
all of them in HTML, inScript, ePub, and mobi formats. Most of
them are not available, yet, in Sword format. What is better:
converting them at the rate of maybe one every week or two into
Sword format, or spending a few weeks writing software that
enables all of them, with all of their versification schemes, to
be automatically imported, both now, and as new Bibles are made
available or updated?<br>
<br>
It isn't just about the KJV in English, any more. The big names in
Bible study software have the majority languages covered, often at
a price. What about free Bibles delivered with free software? Is
that where Sword fits in?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/15/2015 10:29 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:55A6C2A4.3080506@crosswire.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">:) Hi Konstantin,
You have to know when I say something like this, "We could build it, but
I'm afraid it might actually get used," that I'm being mostly facetious
though there is some true concern in what I am writing. Of course I can
see proper uses if the need arises. I didn't think the Danish or French
need was a good case for per-module versification. Our path to support
v11n mapping and optimization is to support major versification systems,
one of which a module must identify itself with. This optimizes key
loading and allow a reasonable opportunity to map between known system.
One disadvantage I tried to stress was specifically for your benefit.
If a module does not associate itself with a supported versification,
but instead supplied its own, then none of your v11n mapping code can
currently be used with the module because we don't know anything about
which v11n system it mostly follows. Again, I am not against adding the
feature, but only trying to avoid adding and using the feature for a use
case which is better addressed with our currently methodology. This
might take longer to research v11n schemes for these regions, but then
we can say we've done the research and when we add a v11n which supports
the majority of Bibles in a region then we'll know which verses a Bible
deviates at when it uses the system. These are all good things.
Anyway, GBS Bible support was never finished-- it was an experiment that
turned out to point to a better solution-- and JSword does not implement
it. It should not be used-- at least right now. And if we move forward
with per-module v11n support, I think I mentioned that JSword might
already have a file format they use. I think an immediate need will
probably push this forward beyond hypothetical talk. Peter may have
one, but I'd like to do some research before we say that all French
Bibles are too crazy to ever define a (or a couple) standard
versification systems.
Hope this helps clear up,
Troy
On 07/15/2015 09:49 PM, Konstantin Maslyuk wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">And it shouldn't be used. :)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
It should not be used for one only purpose and we will reject a usefull
feature? :^S
Today we have years from new v11n appeared in Sword and most of
frontends be released with that v11n. Same for if error was in v11n. And
most annoying will be when we will release bug fixes for mapping data,
some old apps/some old platforms would never get such fixes.
It would be used for some rare texts. I did not meet such, but i count
if text (version) author intentionally change verse index, we have to
leave it, but correctly translate to other v11ns.
By the way v11ns for rare texts will be used by ~0,001% of users, and
will be delivered to all. Isn't it better to store v11n in to those
one/two modules?
One can build own module repository with different v11ns, and it will be
compatible with all Sword apps.
It is just freedom that would bring unexpected good use cases , but we
suppress freedom for the sake of one bad.
Maybe there were another points, can't remember.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
От: Troy A. Griffitts <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:scribe@crosswire.org"><mailto:scribe@crosswire.org></a>
Отправлено: 15.07.2015 14:19
Кому: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org"><mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org></a>
Тема: Re: [sword-devel] Av11n mark 2
Yeah, that doesn't help me either. We abandoned GenBook Bible support
in favor of the VersificationMgr system. I am not against adding a
per-module v11n mechanism, but I fear it will be used. :) And it
shouldn't be used. :) Using this basically allows people to take
shortcuts bypassing the analysis of the versification of their module
and trying to identify it most closely with a common v11n. This is
important as it allow us to display the module with v11n mapping across
different systems. We discussed ways one could also use the mechanism
appropriately: selected the closest common v11n and supplying mappings
for the verses which aren't covered by that v11n. But my experience
would lead me to speculate that if we allow custom v11n, then everyone
will use it for their module-- even if there are only a couple
differences in v11n between their module and a common v11n system,
because they won't need to spend the time to analyze and learn about
their text and v11ns which we support well. Allowing v11n loading per
module is fairly straightforward to implement and I believe JSword might
already have a file format they support.
Regarding this thread. If we need to add 2 new v11ns for French and
Danish, then we need to spend the time to do the research and add a
versification and mapping data.
Troy
On 07/15/2015 01:03 PM, DM Smith wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Jul 15, 2015, at 6:59 AM, Karl Kleinpaste <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:karl@kleinpaste.org">karl@kleinpaste.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:karl@kleinpaste.org"><mailto:karl@kleinpaste.org></a>> wrote:
On 07/15/2015 06:35 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">1) Unlike the other av11n implementation it does not yet show non KJV
verse range content.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I'm confused. If genbook Bibles are essentially self-contained in
terms of v11n, how can a genbook Bible not display all its own content?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I read Peter’s comment that it wouldn’t handle a verse range properly if
one or both of the ends was not in the KJV versification.
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