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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/04/2013 02:27 PM, Troy A.
Griffitts wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51D5E8B9.50302@crosswire.org" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07/04/2013 08:45 PM, Greg Hellings
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHxvOV+CsWBQs5P4rfFEK-AWGizd1aW6nP_CT0RGH8wQQgCzCg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 1:28 PM,
Troy A. Griffitts <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:scribe@crosswire.org" target="_blank">scribe@crosswire.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Not to
insult anyone-- please don't feel insulted...<br>
<br>
But what exactly does basing code off of Bibletime
instead of SWORD give you? Are any of these things
worth having in the engine itself?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="">Primarily:</div>
<div style="">1) Translation between char*/SWBuf and
QString, plus adding QObject and additional helpers that
Qt offers. This is quite possibly worth having in the
engine, but every time I've asked the BibleTime guys if
they want a minimal Qt-Sword binding in the engine they
have decided that it is unnecessary for BT's specific
purposes. I'd still be happy to help get this much
functionality into the engine if we're going to have now
3 frontends leveraging Qt.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm happy to ifdef QT some stuff like:<br>
<br>
SWKey::SWKey(const QString &other) : SWKey((const char
*)other.toUtf8()) {}<br>
SWBuf::SWBuf(const QString &other) : SWBuf((const char
*)other.toUtf8()) {}<br>
<br>
These two should make things flow mostly transparently Qt and the
SWORD engine, since SWBuf and SWKey can already cast themselves to
a const char * and QString can be constructed from a const char
*. It was simply the const temporaries we count on which would
have needed these casts, for example:<br>
<br>
QString key = "John.3.16";<br>
<br>
kjv->setText(key);<br>
<br>
This last line would not have worked because setKey takes a const
SWKey &. It works seamlessly with a const char * because a
temporary can be constructed because of the SWKey(const char *)
c-tor, but there is not currently a SWKey(const QString &) to
allow a temporary to be constructed from a QString.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHxvOV+CsWBQs5P4rfFEK-AWGizd1aW6nP_CT0RGH8wQQgCzCg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
<div style="">2) An improved CLucene search has long been
something that BibleTime touts - the index covers more
fields and metadata than Sword's CLucene index.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, I've seen the ability to search on 'footnotes' and
'headings', but didn't feel those were worth adding right now, but
tried to convince the BT developers to help me modularize the
search framework to allow a 'search field' plugin mechanism--
probably simply a new filter type, and set of filters which could
pull the desired field data from the buffer, then they could add
plugins for their footnotes and headings and anything else they
wanted and frontend could choose which fields they wanted to
include when building indexes. There was no success in that, but
they simply wanted to re-write basically the exact same code we
have for building CLucene indexes, but including their additional
fields.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHxvOV+CsWBQs5P4rfFEK-AWGizd1aW6nP_CT0RGH8wQQgCzCg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style=""> This is probably worth having, but has been
summarily rejected by you in the past because there
would be no way of detecting Old Index vs New Index as
current indexes are unversioned (why that itself
couldn't serve as the flag for old vs new following the
addition of an index version field, I'm not sure).</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You are mistaken.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHxvOV+CsWBQs5P4rfFEK-AWGizd1aW6nP_CT0RGH8wQQgCzCg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style=""> You've also given the impression that the
CLucene indexes are not a high priority for you since
you have the brute force search available.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I use the CLucene indexes all the time. They are great for some
things. I have tried to convince people that they aren't
necessary for 90% of searches because our unindexed search of an
entire Bible is optimized to return results in under a few seconds
on most hardware (probably including most mobile handsets these
days).<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHxvOV+CsWBQs5P4rfFEK-AWGizd1aW6nP_CT0RGH8wQQgCzCg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">3) An entirely rewritten set of OSIS
filters, at the very least. Whether these are better or
not, I have no opinion of, although I have found
BibleTime's filters more understandable.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, but re-written isn't necessarily a feature. We add support
for new things all the time in our filters. Are the Bibletime
filters updated as well? Again, this is important to me: I would
love for all the projects which render to HTML to agree on what
they would like to see as the HTML output from the filters and
work together on the new XHTML filter set in the engine so we can
all share in each other's improvements.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="">4) Potentially reusable widgets in some places,
for common functionality like the Install Manager, where a
redesign may or may not be necessary for some of it.</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, resusable GUI components are useful but not something I think
we would put into the engine. Maybe a 'contrib/qt folder?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/04/2013 09:35 PM, Gary Holmlund wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I am definitely leveraging BibleTime
backend code to install works</blockquote>
<br>
So, a Qt UI using the SWORD InstallMgr facility? This is good but
falls under #4 from Greg, above.<br>
</blockquote>
I am not using the Qt install UI from BibleTime. I am using the Qt
Models that essentially wrap the installation information up so it
can be used by various Qt UI widgets or QML. There is also thread
management I am using during the install.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51D5E8B9.50302@crosswire.org" type="cite"> <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> and the config system for dealing with
user preferences.</blockquote>
<br>
Is this different than SWConfig? Probably using a QSettings? How
is this different than just using stock SWConfig or QSettings?
Does it remember common things the user might store for SWORD,
like which option filters are turned on? and then reset them when
the app starts back up? This could possibly be useful in the
engine, though I would guess most frontend developers would want
to micromanage this and also have more than what we might decide
to track in the engine. Not sure we could come to some consensus
for a useful implementation projects would adopt.<br>
</blockquote>
I am talking about a layer above QSettings. It manages sessions
which include things like opening windows to the same locations and
references as when BibleTime was last used. The user can also save
or restore sessions. It also handles fonts and fonts sizes for each
language and is integrated with the filters that render the html. It
also handles keyboard shortcuts, previous search terms, etc. It
would be to specific for sword functionality.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51D5E8B9.50302@crosswire.org" type="cite"> <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> The filters also provide parallel viewing
of passages in a single window.</blockquote>
<br>
This would be nice to have: a display class which could produce
parallel HTML for multiple modules.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> The fact that the BibleTime backend
converts to QString, etc. is a big savings for a Qt app.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Greg also mentioned this above. Would the additions I mention
help?<br>
</blockquote>
Greg has more experience with the interface to sword. Perhaps he
will comment on this.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:51D5E8B9.50302@crosswire.org" type="cite"> <br>
<br>
Thanks for the comments Greg and Gary!<br>
<br>
<br>
Troy<br>
<br>
Troy<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHxvOV+CsWBQs5P4rfFEK-AWGizd1aW6nP_CT0RGH8wQQgCzCg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
<div style=""> Those are just some of the things I know of
that could be leveraged, in addition to having the
differences of opinion and strategy you talk about
below.</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<div style="">--Greg</div>
<div style=""><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br>
I have looked at the backend 'wrappers' in Bibletime
around SWORD a few years back and I was disappointed for
a number of reasons-- and so as not to insult anyone--
primarily because they didn't add any value at all, but
only 'shielded' developers from using the engine
directly.<br>
<br>
I have no idea if this is still the case. I get the
impression that Bibletime, itself, has been re-written a
number of times and I'm guessing this includes the
'backend' wrappers as well.<br>
<br>
My hope is that if there are any features that are
usable by multiple frontend, then we should add these
into the engine, if it makes sense. Again, in an
attempt to stop this thread from becoming a defense of
the Bibletime code or a defense of a 'methodology for an
API interface (e.g., stateful vs. stateless container
classes) and from degrading into insulting each other, I
have not commented on the quality of the Bibletime code.
I am simply stating that I don't know what<br>
<br>
* solid, additional features *<br>
<br>
are gained from using the Bibletime base for starting a
new frontend instead of the SWORD code directly, and if
there are any, can we add these into the engine?<span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
Troy</font></span>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/04/2013 08:17 PM, Israel wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Great!! I will post the git page (to the uBible
Developers) if you want me too, or you can head
over to<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/uBible/uBible/issues/1"
target="_blank">https://github.com/uBible/uBible/issues/1</a><br>
and post the info yourself if you want.<br>
We have been discussing using Bible Time's backend
because @Mark Trompell suggested it.<br>
You can e-mail me off list if you'd like, or post
on the Github page...<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 09:22:17 -0700<br>
Gary Holmlund <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gary.holmlund@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gary.holmlund@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> I am currently working
on a second frontend for BibleTime that uses
QML.<br>
It is a work in progress and I have some basic
features up and working.<br>
Bibles, Commentaries, and Books can be read in
multiple windows. The<br>
windows can be tabbed or split views of the
screen. The install process<br>
for bibles, etc. is working.<br>
<br>
It requires Qt 5.1 and compiles on linux
(ubuntu, fedora, etc.). I am<br>
looking into cross compiling onto android right
now. Qt is not making<br>
this easy because they don't support cmake
builds for android.<br>
<br>
I have it in a private git repository right now,
but expect to put it<br>
into the main BibleTime git repository soon.
Help with this would be<br>
welcome.<br>
<br>
Gary Holmlund<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gary.holmlund@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gary.holmlund@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/04/2013 06:25 AM, Israel wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"> It uses QML, so it is
part of Qt. I will bring this up to the
others<br>
and see what they think about it all.<br>
It may be a good idea. Anyhow we are
designing an interface at the<br>
moment to get the features we want, using what
capabilities QML has,<br>
and designing it to be fully integrated with
the Ubuntu Touch<br>
ecosystem. There are some things about using
Bible Time that may make<br>
this<br>
hard, but there very well may be some things
we might be able to utilize.<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
On 07/04/2013 12:15 AM, Mark Trompell wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On Thu, Jul 4,
2013 at 2:04 AM, Israel <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:israeldahl@gmail.com"
target="_blank">israeldahl@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Hi everyone,<br>
There are a few of us who have banded
together to start work on a<br>
Ubuntu<br>
Touch SWORD app. Is anyone else working
on one?<br>
</blockquote>
AFAIK Ubuntu touch uses qt, so maybe just
another UI Frontent to<br>
bibletime would do fine,<br>
with the advantage of being easily portable
to mer/nemo/sailfish(jolla).<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> If anyone is
interested please join us on github.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/uBible"
target="_blank">https://github.com/uBible</a><br>
We are currently in the process of working
out the beginning<br>
details, such<br>
as UI setup, features, etc....<br>
May the Lord Jesus bless you all!<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
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