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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Andrew and others,<br>
<br>
This thread is counterproductive-- and has been for quite some
time.<br>
<br>
It is now closed.<br>
<br>
I was CC:ed on the email Peter sent you (Andrew) privately which
outlines explicitly how he was able to obtain multiple modules
from your mirror which indeed have:<br>
<br>
DistributionLicense=Copyrighted; Permission to
distribute granted to CrossWire<br>
<br>
The email gave step by step instructions how to reproduce the
download, which consisted simply of adding your mirror for use by
the SWORD InstallManager command line interface and using the
standard lookup and install commands.<br>
<br>
I give you the benefit of the doubt that you innocently and simply
didn't know that removing the mods.d/*.conf file was not enough to
avoid listing the module as available for download (it was still
in the cache mods.d.tar.gz file and the data files available in
the modules/* folder) <br>
<br>
Please removed all modules from your mirrors for which you have
not obtained redistribution licenses personally.<br>
<br>
If you fail to do so (which I give you the benefit of the doubt
and hope you will comply), since the URL was posted publicly on
this list, you will be banned from further posting to this list.<br>
<br>
At the risk of assuming I can reword the sentiments of other on
this thread, to make things obvious to you:<br>
<br>
I believe you need to invert your thinking about copyright
restrictions. Try starting with 0 (zero) rights, and then build
on that from what you read in the license. So, in other words: If
a work is (C) Copyrighted by the creator. You should start by
assuming you have no rights to copy the work and certainly no
rights to DISTRIBUTE THE WORK FOR ANY PURPOSE (distributing is a
superset of copying, so this should make sense in set theory).<br>
<br>
CrossWire starts this way too. We assume we have no rights to
copy or publicly distribute any copyrighted work unless we gain
permission from the copyright holder. When a copyright owner
grants CrossWire permission to copy and distribute, we define this
as: making the text publicly available from "*.crosswire.org".<br>
<br>
This does not mean our USERS can copy the work or publicly
redistribute the work by making the text available to others; it
simply means the CrossWire can copy the work and distribute it to
our users. Some of our agreements do explicitly allow
redistribution and we state that to our users. We assume all our
users assume they start with 0 (zero) rights to copy and
distribute the text. We feel they can safely understand any of
these rights conveyed by the entry in the module's
DistributionLicense field:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:conf_Files#DistributionLicense">http://crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:conf_Files#DistributionLicense</a><br>
<br>
If a right to copy and distribute is not explicitly granted, then
our users should assume they do not have these DISTRIBUTION
rights, unless they are told otherwise by the publisher. (As DM
has pointed out, some publishers grant further rights in the
"About" section of our .conf file, e.g., "Permission to use up to
500 words... blah blah"). But if you're looking for an overall
distribution license for the entire module that is conveyed from
the publisher through CrossWire to the end user, this would be
summarized in the DistributionLicense field.<br>
<br>
If you've not been granted your own permission to copy and
distribute a text by the publisher directly, then you likely do
not have that permission and should always begin by assuming that
you do not have permission unless you have explicitly seen it
granted to you.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps summarize this thread and represents the general
thoughts of everyone who have spoken with you regarding copyright
in general and the policy we have against posting of public links
on this mailing list to copies of our modules which are
copyrighted by publishers who have not granted redistribution
rights through CrossWire (as would be expressly seen in the
DistributionLicense field if re-distribution rights had been
granted).<br>
<br>
Please cease posting on this topic and please remove the modules.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Troy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/07/2013 07:53 PM, Andrew Thule wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAM9DYGDiB_MJLke_QoeBqnHPefnKUDUTudw0L1mzPYw1AiUZEA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Chris this list in an of itself is not sufficient (legally)
to establish these principles. It is the Copyright owners who
make this determination, not Crosswire list members.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Each Copyright owner is entitled to impose unique
restrictions on the use of their texts. CrossWire is bound on
a module by module basis to abide by the license agreement
agreed to by the Copyright owner. (Although these agreements
may be smiliar, I doubt very much they are exactly the same.
You can see from comparing ESV's general license to ISVs
general license (found under legal) they differ.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It may be the case that the ISV foundations license to
Crosswire is not as restritive as Peter and Chris claimed and
my action of sharing a compile module on a separate server
didn't in fact breach anything. Only by inspecting
Crosswire's license obligations can this be determined
though. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Now that I've been tarred and feathered, I would kind of
like to know if Crosswires license to distrbiute the ISV
indeed prohibits this (so I can know if I'm guilty as charged
or not). Also, if no such restriction exists, Peter's claim
that I have no right to distribute the ISV doesn't hold, and
I'll consider continuing to server it on my repo.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>~A</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Chris
Burrell <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris@burrell.me.uk" target="_blank">chris@burrell.me.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">I think we've got the answers across multiple
threads. DM answers your question in my thread. others
in other threads. </p>
<p dir="ltr">1. All modules are fair game for sword front
ends to use and display.</p>
<p dir="ltr">2. Modifying modules and/or redistributing is
not allowed for modules marked as Copyrighted permission
granted CrossWire</p>
<p dir="ltr">3. Conf files are occasionally inconsistent in
the copyright field and therefore setting up mirrors is
strongly discouraged as mirror owners may well end up
hosting modules illegally. This threatens the ongoing
relationship between CrossWire and the publishers. </p>
<p dir="ltr">4. Modifying modules in general is discouraged
as a lonesome task as there are often tools used to
generate these modules and therfore the source may not be
available to the keen module editor. There may also be
extra restrictions on this modules which restrict the type
of modifications, e.g. adding strong numbers</p>
<p dir="ltr">5. As a result of 4, everyone is encouraged to
contact Chris L to find out who the 'owner' of a module is
before making any modifications but will then be
encouraged to participate is circumstances allow. </p>
<p dir="ltr">6. Sword and JSword so not cope well with
repositories hosting the same module. This is a further
reason for discouraging the instalation of Mirrors for
public use. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Hope that is a good summary of the discussion
so far.</p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p dir="ltr">Chris</p>
</font></span>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">On 7 Jan 2013 17:59, "Andrew Thule" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:thulester@gmail.com" target="_blank">thulester@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at
11:12 AM, DM Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dmsmith@crosswire.org"
target="_blank">dmsmith@crosswire.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
class="gmail_quote">No, we cannot publish the
terms of licensing agreements. Think about it.
These are confidential, privileged contracts
between organizations.<br>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Umm, with software Licenses, Acceptable Use
Policies, Copyright Restrictions and Copyright
limitations are not typically priviledge ..</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The contractual agreement itself may be,
but License for use, especially in
public forums is not, otherwise how can you
come down so hard on someone like me for
trying to abide by licensing agreement when
those agreements are not know?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You're saying on the one had I have to
abide by Crosswire's agreement with
the Copyright Owner and on the other hand I
cannot know what those provisions are. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I think if you check the contract, you'll
see the actually license agreement as an
Appendix or something of that sort for this
very reason.</div>
<div> <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
class="gmail_quote">The contracts are dictated
by the publishers. When asked what they need
to say, we provide the broadest description of
what they need to say at minimum, but we don't
ever suggest particular wording or terms. If
the terms are unacceptable to us, we
communicate that clearly and let them either
amend their terms or withdraw the module.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>Yes, true, however Crosswire as the
licensee is not dealing with paper, but with
digital forms of the text, so presumably as
the licensee you've worked through some of the
issues related to dealing with 'digial
format'. At least your this recent business
between Chris, Peter and I suggests that
this is the case.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Although the terms of Crosswire license
to use of these Copyright works are not clear
to me (dispite what Chris and Peter would have
you believe) because I've seen no such terms,
they are apparently clear to Chris and
Peter. I have no trouble believing Chris and
Peter have seen them, or they wouldn't be
calling me to account.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
class="gmail_quote">
We only need to prove our assertion with the
publishers. Which we have do on occasion.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>Agreed.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"
class="gmail_quote">
<br>
The wording of your request is inviting a "go
pound sand" response. Please be careful in how
you word things.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">DM, I will be careful how
I word things because such advice is always
prudent advice.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">That said, I deny I was
telling anyone to 'pound sand'. I am
disappointed at the way my character, purpose,
and contribution is contantly maligned in these
discussions. It send the signal that
'new-comers' and their ideas are not welcome
here dispite the claim this is an open
community. This treatment on the part of some is
not uniform by any means.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">However the method of
dealing with conflict among Christian's is
covered in the bible, and my disappointment
stems from the idea that not all who engage in
these disagreements make efforts to disagree on
biblical principles. (I assume everyone here is
a Christian).</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">For example, I am
particularly disappointed that I was accused of
breaking Crosswire's licensing restrictions, yet
no one has bothered to either publically name
one module that was available at my repo that
should have been, or provide access to
Crosswire's license as evidence this was wrong.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">If Crosswire has
legitimate license to distribution Copyright
text and is going to use this license agreement
like a hammer, it's not unrasonable to ask that
it be made public, otherwise it has no right to
defer to it in issues of disagreement.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">~A</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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