<div dir="ltr"><div>Greg, respectfully you're still missing the point.</div><div> </div><div>Because a work is Copyright, doesn't grant Crosswire the right to inform me of anything, since CrossWire is not the CopyRight owner. </div>
<div> </div><div>It is only if the Copyright Owner grants Crosswire rights (and restrictions) though the use of a license to use the Copyright work that CrossWire has any legal obligations at all.</div><div> </div><div>The ISV's copyright found here:</div>
<div><a href="http://www.isv.org/legal.php">http://www.isv.org/legal.php</a></div><div> </div><div>Doesn't say anything about Crosswire's right to control how I distribute ISV text. If I am bound by the ISV's agreement only than if I abide by the terms of that agreement I can do anything the agreement allows me to do, and Crosswire has no say in the matter.</div>
<div> </div><div>However, because Crosswire is playing a role in the development of modules, I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Crosswire has 'license' to use the ISV as Copyright work, which means I am not bound by what is at the ISV site, but by the agreement Crosswire has with ISV.</div>
<div> </div><div>If CrossWire has no such agreements, I woudln't be touching any Copyrighted work for fear of the legal liabilities involved.</div><div> </div><div>Either Crosswire has Lisenses covering each Copyright work it deals with, or it does. If it doesn't there are larger problems than me sharing a module. If its does, those terms must be passed on with the work (under copyright law).</div>
<div> </div><div>~A</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Greg Hellings <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:greg.hellings@gmail.com" target="_blank">greg.hellings@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im">On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Andrew Thule <<a href="mailto:thulester@gmail.com">thulester@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Greg, its not clear you understand copyright law.<br>
><br>
> Copyright Law is generic .. it applies generally. If you read American,<br>
> Canadian, or European copyright law you won't find anything mentionion<br>
> CrossWire, ISV, ESV specifically. That means it lays down principles.<br>
><br>
> Therefore, copyright law with respect to either printed work or digital work<br>
> covers specifics in licenses. If you read the licensing that comes with the<br>
> ESV (found here <a href="http://www.esv.org/tools/licensing/" target="_blank">http://www.esv.org/tools/licensing/</a> ) which is specific,<br>
> you'll see that nothing there says anything about CrossWire having the right<br>
> to distribute the ESV either, which means CrossWire's 'right' to distribute<br>
> the ESV (since the entire bible is being distributed) is covered under its<br>
> own license.<br>
><br>
> Thefore anyone using CrossWire's ESV module, or developing that module are<br>
> bound by a license that is apparently 'confidential'.<br>
><br>
> Therefore if I have done as I've claimed, and distributed the ISV in<br>
> contravention of some law, you should be able to produce some document that<br>
> says I'm not permitted to do it. Since the Copyright act doesn't<br>
> specifically speak about the ISV, you would presumably go to the ISV<br>
> foundation site. Yes there is a document there (just like with the ESV),<br>
> except it says nothing about CrossWire's right to distribute, so that<br>
> license is not the one I've breached. For Crosswire to assert its right to<br>
> distribute the ISV it must have a license that says this, and that is what<br>
> we're talking about.<br>
<br>
</div>The text is Copyrighted. CrossWire informs you of this in the conf<br>
file. You are bound by whatever rights have been granted to you by the<br>
holder of the ISV's Copyright. In this case, the text on the page you<br>
reference is the ISV's generic rights that go out to anyone who<br>
legally holds a copy of the text. You legally hold a copy of the text.<br>
Therefore you are bound by that statement by the ISV's Copyright<br>
holder.<br>
<br>
The rights that CrossWire has negotiated separately have no bearing on<br>
your rights to use or distribute the text. Those rights apply to<br>
CrossWire. You have no need to see the agreements because they in no<br>
way have a bearing on you. You are neither CrossWire nor the publisher<br>
of the ISV nor any legal or law enforcement organization within whose<br>
jurisdiction any of the affected parties fall.<br>
<br>
That is how Copyright law works in the USA which is where CrossWire<br>
falls. If you can point to a jurisdiction where you reside that is<br>
affected by a law or requirement that Copyright agreements be made<br>
public then you might have grounds for your request. Until then, you<br>
are asking for private information which does not concern you.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--Greg<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
><br>
> ~A<br>
> .<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Greg Hellings <<a href="mailto:greg.hellings@gmail.com">greg.hellings@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Andrew Thule <<a href="mailto:thulester@gmail.com">thulester@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> > What I did have a hard time with was being publicly held accountable to<br>
>> > license restrictions reasonably unknown to me (and apparently secret),<br>
>> > while<br>
>> > having the issue made personal. It isn't reasonable to assume I knew<br>
>> > sharing a compiled module with this group would set off a firestorm if<br>
>> > the<br>
>> > license between the ISV foundation and CrossWire is treated as<br>
>> > confidential<br>
>><br>
>> You're not being held accountable to CrossWire's terms of<br>
>> distribution. You're being held accountable to Copyright law.<br>
>> Something you are reasonably expected to know. But which you have<br>
>> repeatedly shown yourself either unknowledgeable of - in the case of<br>
>> the Dead Sea Scroll modules discussion - or unwilling to abide by<br>
>> without some sort of extra treatment - in this case knowledge of a<br>
>> contract between two parties which has no bearing on you.<br>
>><br>
>> Stop trying to insult the rest of our intelligences by taking the<br>
>> position of victim in this. You have shown flagrant disregard for<br>
>> Copyright and an unwilling attitude to learn or be instructed in it.<br>
>><br>
>> --Greg<br>
>><br>
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