Greg said: "Fair Use" does not mean plagiarizing.<br><br>TRUE, but nobody's plagiarized - and I hope you're not accusing me of this. Such an unfounded accusation would raise the temperature in this otherwise civil discussion. I understand the legal concept of '<i>transformativeness</i>'. Using someone else's translation of a text is plagiarism when you pass of their work as you own uncredited. As already indicated, I have and will credit the appropriate translators.<br>
<br>~A<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Greg Hellings <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:greg.hellings@gmail.com" target="_blank">greg.hellings@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">"Fair Use" does not mean plagiarizing. Bibles are able to be quoted from, even extensively, to constitute "Fair Use" but you can't copy a Bible out of print or another electronic form, even if you do it by hand, and claim to be using it under "Fair Use" because it's a translation of an ancient work and often used for scholarship. That still constitutes plagiarism.<div>
<br></div><div>There's a difference between "cit[ing] other authors work" and reproducing that work in its entirety. Reproduction and distribution is not "Fair Use". Providing quotations and commentary would be, but wholesale reproduction without permission is not.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The Dead Sea Scrolls are not Copyrightable. But any translation of them is in at least the United States and many other countries as well. You distributing them without permission is a violation of that Copyright. Take, as an example, the NIV's notice:</div>
<div>"<span style="font-size:16px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">The NIV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses without express written permission of the publisher, providing the verses do not amount to a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for twenty-five percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted."</span></div>
Other Bibles offer identical or similar admonishments. Any translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls are under whatever Copyright their author and/or publishers may have placed them. And as much as you want to cry "Fair Use" you are beholden to the laws of the land in which you dwell to honor any such Copyright. In order to share your work with the CrossWire community the community requests that you provide proof that the works are either (1) placed in the public domain, (2) Are able to be reproduced and distributed freely, or (3) you have been granted some form of right by the Copyright holders to distribute them. Claiming, "But it's Fair Use because I want it to be or because _I_ plan to use it academically" does not meet this community's standards of adhering to Copyright. So please, point us to the disclaimer on the original sources, or to the specific laws/rulings that allow this into the Public Domain or provide us evidence that you have secured distribution rights. If you can't do those things, then the CrossWire community doesn't want to play host or distributor to either those texts or your announcement of their availability.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#000000" size="3"><br></font></div>--Greg</font></span><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Andrew Thule <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thulester@gmail.com" target="_blank">thulester@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div><div><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Peter, I assume you understand the difference between intellectual property and copyright. I also assume you understand the 'derivative work' principles of 'fair use' and 'transformativeness'.<div>
<br></div><div>Within science and academia, authors may cite other authors work without permission as long as they provide credit (hence the whole business of citations) else science and common bodies of knowledge would not progress for the sake of humanity. This is also why copyrighting 'science' or 'academic results' is generally frowned upon.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The Dead Sea scrolls are not themselves copyrightable. Their translations, being the product of largly publically funded academic work, falls under the category of intellectual property. As long as I cite who did the original translation and transform the work significantly from its originally published form (which I've done) I'm well within 'fair use' however much you protest. Moreover, when 'fair use' is for academic or scientific purposes, rather than commercial purposes, the court err on the side of free and open.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Besides, you're not being any kind of spoil sport since you're entitled to your opinion and I'm really nor seeking your permission to do anything. My offer is open to the community.</div>
<div>
<br></div><div>With the greatest respect.</div><span><font color="#888888"><div>~A<span></span></div></font></span><div><div><br><br>On Wednesday, November 7, 2012, Peter von Kaehne wrote:<br></div>
<div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 07/11/12 15:52, Andrew Thule wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It is a derivative work from academic translations, but for now treat as<br>
copyrighted, until I resolve the license issue. With the exception of<br>
Elisha Qimron's translations (by the Israeli Supreme Court no less), all<br>
other DSS translations are treated as academic or scientific knowledge,<br>
and so free for use, subject to citation.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I hate being a spoilsport (and I think I get form in that...), but I do not think this will cut it. What is "academic" in these circumstances? Unless the country the translations have been made somehow PDs all produce by publicly funded universities (unlikely, TBH) then these texts will be subject to the ordinary rules as usual - no publication unless permissions are obtained.<br>
<br>
Now, I think it would be great to gain permission, and academic sources are often very kind + generous with these, but please be careful not to assume.<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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