I added a bug report here (along with 24 other verses which appear to be badly tagged):<br><a href="http://www.crosswire.org/bugs/browse/MOD-76">http://www.crosswire.org/bugs/browse/MOD-76</a><br><br clear="all">God Bless,<br>
Ben<br>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Multitudes, multitudes,<br> in the valley of decision!<br>For the day of the LORD is near<br> in the valley of decision.<br>
<br>Giôên 3:14 (ESV)<br><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 12:13 PM, DM Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dmsmith@crosswire.org">dmsmith@crosswire.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I meant to reply earlier. The Strong's Numbers in the KJV NT was done by volunteers. The quality differed from one volunteer to another. The tagger that they used, Troy developed. I haven't looked at it, though. From what I heard, (I haven't looked at it though), is that the tagger took a Greek module with Strong's Numbers and presented it with the KJV text, verse by verse. The user then paired words from the Greek to the English.<br>
<br>
In any translation, from one language to another, it is not always one for one. Several situations occur:<br>
1) A source word is translated into one target word.<br>
2) A source phrase is translated into one target word.<br>
3) A source word is translated into a target phrase.<br>
4) A source phrase is translated into a target phrase.<br>
5) Several source words are translated into several target words and the result is that the mapping is fragmented. (Look for x-split in the KJV source)<br>
There may be others.<br>
<br>
Ideally, the original authors would have kept their original interlinear translation, but after 300 years, that is a bit too much to ask :)<br>
<br>
In the KJV2003 effort every Greek word from the original is present in the KJV as a <w> element even if it does not have content. There was no effort in either the 2003 or the 2006 effort to place these in a meaningful location. Empty w tags should not be shown. The src attribute was used to map to the position of the Greek word in the source text.<br>
<br>
Anyway, the Greek indefinite article, G3588, is probably the most common word that is not translated into English. When it is not translated, it is typically combined with the word that follows. This was part of the 2006 effort. For example "the house" (o oikos) might translate "house" and be represented as <w lemma="strong:3588 strong:xxxx">house</w>. (I'm doing this from memory, so it might not be exact.) In this case the word "house" in English is translated by two words in Greek, o oikos.<br>
<br>
Yes, this verse needs help. I'm going into this level of detail, because this is not the only verse that needs help. I think that there needs to be a new effort to analyze the KJV for potential problems and then fix them.<br>
<br>
The source for Rev 15:3 is: (I've remove the morph attributes and added new lines for clarity.)<br>
<w lemma="strong:G40" src="35"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G935" src="33"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3598" src="30"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3841" src="25"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G2316" src="23"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G2041" src="19"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G721" src="13"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G5603" src="11"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G2316" src="8"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G1401" src="6"></w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G2532" src="1">And</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G103" src="2">they sing</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588 strong:G5603" src="3 4">the song</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3475" src="5">of Moses</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="7">the servant</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G2532" src="9">of God</w>,<br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="10">and</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="12">the song</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3004" src="14">of the Lamb</w>,<br>
<w lemma="strong:G3173" src="15">saying</w>,<br>
<w lemma="strong:G2532" src="16">Great</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G2298" src="17">and</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="18">marvellous</w><br>
<transChange type="added">are</transChange><br>
<w lemma="strong:G2962" src="21">thy</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G4675" src="20">works</w>,<br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="22">Lord</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="24">God</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G1342" src="26">Almighty</w>;<br>
<w lemma="strong:G2532" src="27">just</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G228" src="28">and</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="29">true</w><br>
<transChange type="added">are</transChange><br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="32">thy</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G4675" src="31">ways</w>,<br>
thou<br>
<w lemma="strong:G3588" src="34">King</w><br>
<w lemma="strong:G40" src="36">of saints</w>.<br>
<milestone resp="pdy 2003-12-30-11:12" type="x-strongsMarkup"/><br>
<br>
<br>
Note the milestone at the end. The resp attribute give the initials of the one who did the Strong's mapping. This is present in every verse. If we find that one by pdy is bad, then we can look at others by pdy.<br>
<br>
While I have studied Koine Greek, it has been over 25 years ago. If someone more current than me can fix this, I'll be glad to update the source.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps. BTW, if a bug is filed in Jira under MOD (aka Modules) it is more likely to be fixed.<br>
<br>
In Him,<br><font color="#888888">
DM</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Mar 21, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The verse appears odd indeed - at least in xiphos. I have not looked at the actual entry in the module. But I also think that your list of strongs for this verse is not complete. 3588 is the greek definite article, so it appears commonly in dual strong entry and your printout does not seem to include the second entry.<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
-------- Original-Nachricht --------<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Datum: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:01:00 +1100<br>
Von: Ben Morgan <<a href="mailto:benpmorgan@gmail.com" target="_blank">benpmorgan@gmail.com</a>><br>
An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum" <<a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>><br>
Betreff: [sword-devel] Revelation 15:3 in KJV<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Revelation 15:3 in the KJV is a little odd in that it starts with a lot of<br>
empty strong's number tags and appears to be badly tagged. I am using KJV<br>
2.3<br>
<br>
As you can see, <3588>'s get applied to lots of the words where they don't<br>
belong:<br>
3 <40><935><3598><3841><2316><2041><721><5603><2316><1401>And<2532> they<br>
sing<103> the song<3588><5603> of Moses<3475> the servant<3588> of<br>
God<2532>, and<3588> the song<3588> of the Lamb<3004>, saying<3173>,<br>
Great<2532> and<2298> marvellous<3588> are thy<2962> works<4675>,<br>
Lord<3588><br>
God<3588> Almighty<1342>; just<2532> and<228> true<3588> are thy<3588><br>
ways<4675>, thou King<3588> of saints<40>.<br>
God Bless,<br>
Ben<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Multitudes, multitudes,<br>
in the valley of decision!<br>
For the day of the LORD is near<br>
in the valley of decision.<br>
<br>
Giôên 3:14 (ESV)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
-- <br>
Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört? Der kann`s mit allen: <a href="http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01" target="_blank">http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger01</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sword-devel mailing list: <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel" target="_blank">http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a><br>
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sword-devel mailing list: <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org" target="_blank">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel" target="_blank">http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel</a><br>
Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>