To claim that it is always a paragraph marker would be to take too
simplistic a view of the translation and meaning of the term. It
can often be used to indicate a new paragraph, but can also be used in
a way that would join together two actions, such as "Jesus went around
preaching and healing. <span style="font-style: italic;">And</span>
while he was walking along..." or some usage like that. If "de"
is to be thought of as always indicating a new paragraph in the Greek,
then there are lots of missing paragraph lines in translations of the
NT. I have, though, noticed more and more modern translations
(rightly) leaving out some of the occurances of the word.<br>
<br>
--Greg<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 11/30/05, <b class="gmail_sendername">Art Bolstad</b> <<a href="mailto:Art@arthurbolstad.com">Art@arthurbolstad.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Just a translator's note: "de" in Greek (always the second word in a<br>sentance) is a paragraph marker. As such it is really shown in English<br>by the indentation. But it "feels" funny if a Greek word is not shown
<br>with an English word.<br><br>art<br><br>Greg Hellings wrote:<br><br>> Vladimir,<br>><br>> I believe your problem can be resolved with a little expounding of<br>> Greek grammar. Both of the depictions are actually correct. I would
<br>> tend to lean towards the markup you have from Sword as being "more"<br>> correct, but allow me to explain it with the following:<br>><br>> The Greek, with the direct "interlinear" style translation under it reads:
<br>> tauta de autou enthumethentos<br>> these things but he while thought<br>><br>> I don't usually work with Strongs, but if I can guess what Strongs is<br>> doing here it comes down to this:
<br>> Word 1161 is the particle "de" which is loosely translated as "but"<br>> although it simply means a continuation of the story, action or<br>> thought and is equally well translated "and, so" etc.
<br>> Word 846 is probably actually "autou" - which in this case is the<br>> genitive form of the pronoun "he."<br>> Word 1760 is the genitive "enthumethentos" - the genitive participle
<br>> of "thought on."<br>> Word 5023 is clearly the plural verb "tauta" which means "these" or<br>> "these things."<br>><br>> When the genitive pronoun is combined with the genitive participle
<br>> (the words "autou enthumethentos") the result is what is called, in<br>> Greek, the "genitive absolute." Normally when a noun appears in the<br>> genitive it indicates possession of something, but when it is combined
<br>> with a participle, the result could mean almost anything. Most<br>> translators would understand the phrase to mean "while he was<br>> thinking" but genitive absolutes have to be translated a bunch of
<br>> different ways, all depending on the context. Sometimes it could<br>> equally well be "because" or "after" or "before" or any other number<br>> of meanings. The translator has to figure it out from the context.
<br>> So, essentially, the word "while" does not, strictly speaking, appear<br>> in this passage. However, most of the time in your Bible that you see<br>> the word "while" and sometimes even the word "because" and so on, the
<br>> Greek actually has this same exact construct. So the word "while"<br>> could be thought of as either part of the noun (word 846) or as part<br>> of the verb (word 1760). So both versions of the Strong's markup are
<br>> technically valid, but the one you get from Sword is more accurate.<br>><br>> Ideally, the word "while" would somehow be indicated as a supplied<br>> word in the English translation, if the reader is supposed to be
<br>> working from the Greek. Many older KJV bibles had this feature by<br>> means of italicizing words. However, for everyday readers, this<br>> results in less clarity because they think that the italicized word
<br>> has greater importance, whereas the italics usually mean that the use<br>> of this word was *more* of an interpretive decision than the words<br>> around it. So you might say that the following is a better parsing of
<br>> the text:<br>><br>> 1161 -> But, and, so<br>> while -> understood from context, also valid as "because" or other<br>> possible meanings<br>> 846 -> he<br>> 1760 -> thought on
<br>> 5023 -> these things<br>><br>> Hope that helps more than it confuses. If you really want to learn<br>> more, get a good Greek grammar that will teach you something about the<br>> genitive absolute construct. Or, better yet, do that anyway and learn
<br>> some Greek so you can read the Bible in Greek... actually, I wouldn't<br>> recommend that course of action; it takes too long and is usually too<br>> time consuming even when have have learned Greek :).<br>
><br>> --Greg<br>><br>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>>_______________________________________________<br>>sword-devel mailing list: <a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org">
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