[sword-devel] [modules] New Beta Module: StatResGNT

Sat Mar 15 06:58:03 EDT 2025

Ah, so I was indeed missing something ! Thanks David for the clarification.

I still think using <hi> is not a satisfying solution though, as it loses
semantic information that OSIS is supposed to preserve.
OSIS does provide a more generic <name type="..."> tag that could be used.
The currently supported name types are "geographic", "holiday", "nonhuman",
"person", "ritual", but x-prefixed extensions are also allowed.
So a <name type="x-nominasacra"> for example (with proper handling in
sword) would be more appropriate - though of course the rendering for it
would have to be implemented.

Le sam. 15 mars 2025 à 11:46, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> a écrit :

> Arnaud,
>
> The divineName is used only for the Tetragrammaton and its conjugates from
> the Hebrew OT. The SWORD engine renders such using small-caps.
>
> Nomina Sacra are a quite different matter. Refer to the Wikipedia
> article.
>
> Even the name Jerusalem has a Nomen Sacrum in some MSS.
>
> David
>
> Sent from Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> for iOS
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 15, 2025 at 10:31, Arnaud Vié < unas.zole+avie at gmail.com
> <On+Sat,+Mar+15,+2025+at+10:31,+Arnaud+Vié+%3C%3Ca+href=>> wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but for the "nomina sacra" use case, why are
> you not using the dedicated semantic <divineName> tag ?
>
> OSIS is designed to store semantic markup when possible, rather than
> formatting information.
> The OSIS manual clearly specifies that "The hi element is reserved for
> cases where the reason for the highlighting or other typographic
> distinction is unknown." Here, you know what the reason is, and OSIS
> provides a dedicated tag for your use case. So using <hi> here is actually
> a misusage as far as OSIS is concerned.
>
> The more correct course of action would be using <divineName>, and
> ensuring that the rendering code in SWORD is applying a proper formatting
> to this divineName tag.
> (Or even better, allow bibles to carry "stylesheets" to customise the
> rendering of tags per-bible without sacrificing the semantic information -
> but that's a matter for another day).
>
> Regards,
>
> Arnaud
>
>
>
> Le sam. 15 mars 2025 à 04:53, David Haslam < dfhdfh at protonmail.com> a
> écrit :
>
>> I've now documented some of this in the developers' wiki, under a new
>> section for *Text styles.*
>>
>> OSIS Bibles - CrossWire Bible Society
>> <https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_Bibles#Text_styles>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email.
>>
>> On Saturday, March 15th, 2025 at 12:48 AM, DM Smith <
>> dmsmith at crosswire.org> wrote:
>>
>> Your question is really whether it is buggy. it looks good to me,
>> Really, Troy has a module for which it works. There may be a future
>> latex, html, xhtml, tei, …. that might find a problem and find a bug.
>>
>> There is an incomplete test suite (all test suites are incomplete!) that
>> could be improved with fuller input. Maybe this too.
>>
>> So much of our software development is, “works for me” I’ll go on to the
>> next thing. That’s what I do. If someone finds a problem, then I’ll fix it.
>>
>> DM
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2025, at 12:45 PM, David Haslam < dfhdfh at protonmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Troy, 😀
>>
>> Your replies were clearly intended to be read by coders! 🥸
>>
>> *Has anyone tested this bit of code yet?*
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email.
>>
>> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 4:38 PM, Troy A. Griffitts <
>> scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
>>
>> I believe we support this in SWORD:
>>
>> ```
>>
>> [tgriffitts at fedora filters]$ grep overline *
>> osishtmlhref.cpp: else if (type == "ol" || type == "overline" || type ==
>> "x-overline") {
>> osishtmlhref.cpp: outText("<span style=\"text-decoration:overline\">",
>> buf, u);
>> osislatex.cpp: // there is no officially supported OSIS overline
>> attribute,
>> osislatex.cpp: // thus either TEI overline or OSIS x-overline would be
>> best,
>> osislatex.cpp: // OSIS overline attribute is made available, these should
>> all
>> osislatex.cpp: else if (type == "ol" || type == "overline" || type ==
>> "x-overline") {
>> osislatex.cpp: outText("\\textoverline{", buf, u);
>> osisplain.cpp: // there is no officially supported OSIS overline
>> attribute,
>> osisplain.cpp: // thus either TEI overline or OSIS x-overline would be
>> best,
>> osisplain.cpp: // OSIS overline attribute is made available, these should
>> all
>> osisplain.cpp: if (strstr(token, "rend=\"ol\"") || strstr(token,
>> "rend=\"x-overline\"") || strstr(token, "rend=\"overline\"")
>> osisplain.cpp: || strstr(token, "type=\"ol\"") || strstr(token,
>> "type=\"x-overline\"") || strstr(token, "type=\"overline\"")) {
>> osisplain.cpp: u->hiType = "overline";
>> osisplain.cpp: if (u->hiType == "overline") {
>> osisxhtml.cpp: .overline { text-decoration: overline; }\n\
>> osisxhtml.cpp: // there is no officially supported OSIS overline
>> attribute,
>> osisxhtml.cpp: // thus either TEI overline or OSIS x-overline would be
>> best,
>> osisxhtml.cpp: // OSIS overline attribute is made available, these should
>> all
>> osisxhtml.cpp: else if (type == "ol" || type == "overline" || type ==
>> "x-overline") {
>> osisxhtml.cpp: outText("<span class=\"overline\">", buf, u);
>> teihtmlhref.cpp: else if (rend == "overline")
>> teihtmlhref.cpp: buf += "<span style=\"text-decoration:overline\">";
>> teihtmlhref.cpp: else if (rend == "overline")
>> teilatex.cpp: else if (rend == "overline")
>> teilatex.cpp: buf += "\\overline{";
>> teixhtml.cpp: else if (rend == "overline")
>> teixhtml.cpp: buf += "<span style=\"text-decoration:overline\">";
>> teixhtml.cpp: else if (rend == "overline")
>> ```
>>
>>
>> On 3/14/25 3:31 PM, David Haslam wrote:
>>
>> Thanks DM,
>>
>> As and when we get a fix on this for SWORD as well as JSword, we should
>> add a suitable description in OSIS Bibles - CrossWire Bible Society
>> <https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_Bibles#Miscellaneous>
>> We might even use the *nomen-sacrum* case as the illustrated example.
>>
>> Can anyone familiar with how SWORD works tell us whether
>>
>> <hi rend="overline" > θς </hi>
>>
>> would be correctly rendered by SWORD?
>>
>> And would we need to specify this within an eXtended *type* attribute
>> value (one with an "x-" prefix) for the *abbr* element?
>>
>> <abbr type="x-nomSac">
>> <hi rend="overline" > θς </hi>
>> </abbr>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email.
>>
>> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 1:58 PM, DM Smith <dmsmith at crosswire.org>
>> <dmsmith at crosswire.org> wrote:
>>
>> Regarding JSword, it supports some TEI within OSIS. Specifically it
>> supports hi with TEI’s attribute rend in addition to OSIS’s attribute type.
>> Chris Little directed that this should be so.
>>
>> It has been a long time since we discussed this, so my memory might be
>> faulty that OSIS was based on TEI and SWORD/JSword would allow some TEI
>> constructs with the OSIS filter.
>>
>> JSword needs a small, easy change to support overline. At this time, it
>> will show the text without any decoration. It should be added to our
>> edition of OSIS.
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2025, at 4:55 AM, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com>
>> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Troy,
>>
>> Does SWORD support an OSIS equivalent to this TEI snippet?
>>
>> <abbr type="nomSac">
>> <hi rend="overline"> θς </hi>
>> </abbr>
>>
>>
>> Not asking about the *abbr* element, but the *rend="overline"* attribute
>> for the *hi* element.
>>
>> Rendering text with *overline* is not documented in the *OSIS User
>> Manual*.
>>
>>    1. Has this ever been tested in SWORD front-ends?
>>    2. How about JSword-based apps?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email.
>>
>> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 8:48 AM, David Haslam
>> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Follow-up...
>>
>> The screenshot image in my *previous reply* is what I saw in *Safari*
>> when I clicked Troy's link while viewing messages from my *iPad Mini 4*.
>>
>> Now that I've done likewise while viewing messages from my *Windows 11
>> PC*, I see a proper XML file via the *Edge* browser!
>>
>> <w>
>> <abbr type="nomSac" >
>> <hi rend="overline" > θς </hi>
>> </abbr>
>> </w>
>> <w> τον </w>
>> <w> κοσμον </w>
>> <pc> · </pc>
>> <lb/>
>> <w> ωστε </w>
>> <w> τον </w>
>>
>>
>> Just shows that WYSINAWYG ! 🥸
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email.
>>
>> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 6:40 AM, David Haslam
>> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> <106d2d31-021b-436b-80ed-0686abfbff3a_image.png>
>> Hi Troy,
>>
>> Above is what I see after I clicked your link! Not sure if that’s what
>> you intended.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 23:52, Troy A. Griffitts < scribe at crosswire.org
>> <On+Thu,+Mar+13,+2025+at+23:52,+Troy+A.+Griffitts+%3C%3Ca+href=>> wrote:
>>
>> This is how we record nomen sacrum in TEI and should transfer to OSIS
>> just fine, e.g.,
>>
>>
>> https://ntvmr.uni-muenster.de/community/vmr/api/transcript/get/?docID=20001&indexContent=John.3.16&format=teiraw
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/25 4:28 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>>
>> I think the best and correct way is to call this ‘display’ and encode the
>> exact look you want to achieve via style sheet.
>>
>> Sent from Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* sword-devel <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org>
>> <sword-devel-bounces at crosswire.org> on behalf of David Haslam
>> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 13, 2025 2:34 pm
>> *To:* Alan Bunning <greekcntr at gmail.com> <greekcntr at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>> <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sword-devel] Fwd: [modules] New Beta Module: StatResGNT
>> It would also require that we devise a means to encode in the OSIS the
>> equivalent to what was used in the underlying Wiki format !
>>
>> {{overline|ΘΥ}}
>>
>> I doubt if the SWORD engine has a means to implement that!
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 2:22 PM, David Haslam
>> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Alan, for the explanation.
>>
>> This then prompts a suggestion as to the potential use of the OSIS *abbr*
>> element for each instance. This would require that each type of *nomina
>> sacrum* would then need to be retained as the abbreviation, and then
>> expanded using the XML attribute, e.g.
>>
>> <abbr expansion="Θεοῦ"> ΘΥ </abbr>
>>
>> Please refer to the *OSIS User Manual* section 13.2
>>
>> NB. I don't know whether the SWORD engine has any code to display the
>> expansions!
>> *The coders might enlighten us on this point. I have therefore cc: to *
>> *sword-devel*
>> * in this reply. *
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 1:45 PM, Alan Bunning
>> <greekcntr at gmail.com> <greekcntr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, that symbol is used to mark nomina sacra.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Alan Bunning, D.Litt. Executive Director Center for New Testament
>> Restoration https://greekcntr.org <https://greekcntr.org/>*
>>
>> On 3/13/2025 9:42 AM, Kovács Zoltán wrote:
>>
>> Dear Alan,
>> I received the following emails. I haven't looked into them very much,
>> but maybe you want to join the conversation.
>> Blessings, Zoltan
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> Feladó: *David Haslam* < dfhdfh at protonmail.com>
>> Date: 2025. márc. 13., Cs, 14:37
>> Subject: Re: [modules] New Beta Module: StatResGNT
>> To: pierre amadio < amadio.pierre at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Kovács Zoltán < kovzol at gmail.com>, < modules at crosswire.org>
>>
>>
>> Hi Pierre,
>>
>> That's a very plausible explanation!
>>
>> Here are the relevant lines from my *word count*.
>>
>> Word Count
>> ˚Θεέ 2
>> ˚Θεοῦ 690
>> ˚Θεόν 73
>> ˚Θεός 68
>> ˚Θεὸν 72
>> ˚Θεὸς 239
>> ˚Θεῷ 158
>> ˚Κυρίου 231
>> ˚Κυρίῳ 95
>> ˚Κύριε 89
>> ˚Κύριον 63
>> ˚Κύριος 139
>> ˚Κύριόν 1
>> ˚Κύριός 10
>> ˚Πνεύματι 59
>> ˚Πνεύματος 79
>> ˚Πνεύματός 5
>> ˚Πνεῦμά 7
>> ˚Πνεῦμα 99
>> ˚Χριστέ 1
>> ˚Χριστοῦ 252
>> ˚Χριστόν 18
>> ˚Χριστός 41
>> ˚Χριστὸν 48
>> ˚Χριστὸς 71
>> ˚Χριστῷ 104
>> ˚θεὸς 1
>> ˚Ἰησοῦ 329
>> ˚Ἰησοῦν 126
>> ˚Ἰησοῦς 456
>>
>>
>> NB. If this is a technical means to mark the use of *nomina sacra*, then
>> it ought to be described in the conf file!
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 1:11 PM, pierre amadio
>> amadio.pierre at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi there.
>>
>> As far as I know, there is no such greek accent as a circular mark
>> such as Ring Above (U+02DA).
>> Looking at the source text, they seem to always appears next to words
>> such as
>>
>> https://github.com/Center-for-New-Testament-Restoration/SR/blob/main/SR.txt
>> ˚Ἰησοῦ ˚Χριστοῦ,
>> ˚Πνεύματος
>> ˚Κυρίου
>>
>> Could it be a way to mark the use of a nomina sacra in manuscripts ?
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 at 13:38, Kovács Zoltán kovzol at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, David, I will look into it and get back to you.
>> Best, Zoltan
>>
>> David Haslam dfhdfh at protonmail.com ezt írta (időpont: 2025. márc. 13.,
>> Cs, 13:33):
>>
>> Arising from the grapheme count, I have a further technical query.
>>
>> There are 3626 instances of U+02DA RING ABOVE.
>>
>> I am wondering whether these would be better being all replaced by U+030A
>> COMBINING RING ABOVE, and if so, whether the mark should follow the Greek
>> letter rather than precede it.
>>
>> NB. My knowledge of Ancient Greek accents rules is fairly limited.
>>
>> Q. What is the most suitable Unicode font for viewing a Greek NT text?
>> Might it be sensible to include such an element in the .conf file?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 12:13 PM, David Haslam
>> dfhdfh at protonmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kovács,
>>
>> Using BabelPad Tools, I have just done a grapheme count on the full Greek
>> text with accents.
>> i.e. After first stripping out the references from the diatheke output.
>> See inside attached 7-Zip file.
>>
>> There are two left/right count mismatches that ought to be looked at.
>>
>> 2018 ‘ 483
>> 2019 ’ 484
>> 201C “ 1,904
>> 201D ” 1,907
>>
>> cf. The counts of left/right parentheses were OK.
>>
>> 0028 ( 62
>> 0029 ) 62
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>
>> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 11:59 AM, David Haslam
>> dfhdfh at protonmail.com wrote:
>>
>> This module has the wrong Versification.
>>
>> It's a Greek NT and therefore LXX is simply the wrong choice!
>>
>> Please fix this ASAP.
>>
>> Dom, Please also fix any bug in your script that led to this mistake!
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 12th, 2025 at 5:52 PM, domcox at crosswire.org
>> domcox at crosswire.org wrote:
>>
>> This is to announce that we have just now uploaded StatResGNT
>> in the CrossWire beta repository for testing purposes.
>>
>> If no raised concern nor a quality alert has been sent on the list,
>> StatResGNT will be published in a week.
>>
>> This is an update.
>> Language=Ancient Greek (to 1453)
>> Version=1.3
>> History_1.3=(2025-03-12) Update to newest release (last database change:
>> 2024-07-16)
>> TextSource=
>> https://github.com/Center-for-New-Testament-Restoration/SR/blob/master/SR.txt
>> Versification=LXX
>>
>> Many thanks to Kovács_Zoltán for the hard work.
>>
>> yours
>>
>> P.S.: This email is sent automatically.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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