[sword-devel] LXX verse numbering with alphanumeric character
Fr Cyrille
fr.cyrille at tiberiade.be
Thu Feb 20 10:11:14 EST 2025
Le 20/02/2025 à 14:27, Arnaud Vié a écrit :
> Hi all,
>
> David, the OSIS ID "!" extensions that you mention are not really a
> good way to handle this in theory, as they are "work-specific" and
> they are ways to reference portions of verses : by nature, they might
> be used for internal references (a note text referencing a subverse in
> the same document) but they will completely break the verse mapping
> features across bibles.
>
> Usually, when you have lettered verse numbers in a text, these denote
> actual verses that were included from a different text source. They
> should still have a unique OSIS ID, and be mappable individually.
> The typical use case I reported a while ago is the deuterocanonical
> contents in Daniel and Esther : in pretty much all french catholic
> bibles, the verses that are present in LXX but not in the hebrew
> sources are using lettered verse numbers (eg. Esth 3:13a to 13g
> containing the text of the letter, etc.)
>
> There are two possible ways of handling it :
>
> 1/ The sword-compatible hack : Ignore the lettered verse numbers, and
> consider the text of all these verses as suffix of the previous verse.
> (eg. Esth 3:13 becomes one very long verse).
> Then, this huge verse is a mess, but the mapping of the rest of the
> text keeps working.
> I think that's what Cyrille has been using in the past, and according
> to Troy's answer above, this is what osis2mod might generate if you do
> use work-specific suffixes in your source OSIS.
>
> 2/ The correct OSIS way, unsupported by sword : Declare all verses
> individually in sequence.
> (eg. Esth 3:13a gets the OSIS ID Esth.3.14, etc.).
> Then, your chapter will have many more verses than what the sword
> versifications allow, therefore osis2mod will merge all the end of the
> book into the last verse.
> This is what Pierre's example shows : the end of the 1Kgs 2 has been
> merged into the last verse 46.
>
> The good solution would be for Sword to provide a correct
> versification for this bible.
>
> Given that here we're talking about the official LXX module, which
> contains one of the most well-known and influential versions of the
> bible, for sure we should have a versification defined that exactly
> matches this base text.
> Either updating the LXX versification, or defining a new one if we're
> worried about breaking other existing modules that might use the
> current LXX versification.
>
> (and for lesser known bibles where we don't want to maintain a
> hardcoded versification in sword, I've already proposed a strategy to
> allow dynamic and modular versifications, but I'll sound like a broken
> record if I keep mentioning it again - if you are interested we have a
> private mail thread with DM Smith and a few other people to discuss
> the necessary changes.)
I'm interresting!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arnaud
>
> PS : On an unrelated note, would it be possible to configure the DNS
> blacklist of this mailing list to be a bit less agressive ? Every time
> I write to this mailing list, I have to retry 2, 3, 4 times or more
> until it goes through, because "droneBL" seems to have blacklisted 70%
> of GMail's SMTP servers...
>
>
> Le jeu. 20 févr. 2025 à 13:57, Troy A. Griffitts
> <scribe at crosswire.org> a écrit :
>
> Just a quick note:
>
> The engine parser has a 'suffix' concept so it understand John
> 3:16a ->
> John 3:16 (suffix a)
>
> I don't remember what osis2mod does, but I think it (or another of
> our
> tools, e.g., imp2vs) may join all the suffix parts of a verse
> together
> and place a literal (a), (b), (c)... at the start of the section.
> This
> is only for the benefit of the user and not anything which is
> separate
> in the engine. None of this is ideal, but just an small effort to
> meet
> these exceptions with some kind of reasoning (even if not ideal).
>
> On 2/20/25 12:28 PM, pierre amadio wrote:
> > Hi there.
> >
> > Cyrille informed me about this issue:
> > https://github.com/crosswire/xiphos/issues/1172
> >
> > According to Karl,
> > """
> > The deeper problem causing this mess is that LXX 1Kings 2 is pretty
> > braindamaged. Do mod2imp LXX > /tmp/lxx.imp and look at 1Kings
> 2. The
> > markup ends with a ridiculously long single verse 2:46, with nothing
> > thereafter intervening from vv. 47-71 and 3:1, then picks up
> normally
> > again at 3:2. Somebody botched this one pretty badly.
> > """
> >
> > In the source file used to build the module, 1Kings ends with some
> > verse that have a funny index: it contain alphanumeric entry:
> >
> > 2:46
> > 2:46a
> > 2:46b
> > 2:46c
> > ... and so on until the end of the chapter.
> >
> > And chapter 3 starts directly with verse 2
> >
> http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/gopher/text/religion/biblical/lxxmorph/14.1Kings.mlxx
> >
> > It is the same on a paper version (Septuaginta, A Reader's Edition),
> > so I am assuming it is not a mistake.
> >
> > I can rebuild a LXX module with empty verses where there are missing
> > ones such as in 1Kings 3:1 (that is already the case for Odes
> which is
> > dealt with already. I plan to make a global check for all books and
> > chapters, just to be safe).
> >
> > What about the alphanumerical verse numbering ?
> > Right now, i simply ignore any alphabetical character when switching
> > from the imp format to the xml one:
> >
> > https://github.com/pierre-amadio/LXX/blob/main/bin/imp2xml.py#L48
> >
> > This ends up with several verse nodes having the same osisID in the
> > final xml file.
> >
> > What should be the ideal way to deal with those ?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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