[sword-devel] Making better use of the CrossWire GitHub project ?
Robert Hunt
hunt.robertj at gmail.com
Sun Feb 18 16:41:15 EST 2024
Just to add a little to Michael Johnson's comments below, OSIS can
include significantly more metadata than USX specifies (which is little
more than the book code -- not even whether it's an original text
(Heb/Greek) or what language translation it is). OSIS can specify many
other things like version number, licenses and contributors' names, etc.
So for a fair comparison with OSIS, I think you'd have to specify USX
*along with ScriptureBurrito metadata*: see https://www.Burrito.Bible
<https://www.burrito.bible/> (which is also in the process of being
supported by the most influential Bible-translation orgs AFAIK).
Blessings,
Robert.
https://OpenEnglishTranslation.Bible <https://OpenEnglishTranslation.Bible>
On 19/02/24 10:19, Michael Johnson wrote:
>
> Thank you, Michael, for the pointer to Jonathan Robie's paper on
> Scriptural markup in the Bible translation community. I think it
> diplomatically states why USX won out over OSIS as the primary and
> best-supported XML standard for representing Scripture.
>
> I really don't expect USFM or USX to go away any time soon, nor do I
> expect OSIS to gain significant traction where it is not in use
> already. I think it is safe to say that Crosswire is the group that
> cares most about OSIS. In many ways, the USX vs. OSIS competition is
> like the old VHS vs. BetaMax video tape competition. (Remember way
> back when video tapes were actually used?) BetaMax was technically
> superior in many ways, but VHS won because of (1) greater support by
> content providers, (2) slightly lower cost of implementation, and (3)
> incompatibility between the formats (i.e. no machine could read both
> formats).
>
> I honestly think that fully supporting USX would be a better use of
> limited resources than tweaking OSIS to overcome its current defects.
>
> For those that don't know, USX is an XML representation of USFM.
>
> USX is well documented and actively maintained at
> https://ubsicap.github.io/usx/. OSIS is abandoned by almost everyone
> by Crosswire. Backup copies of the Schema or on crosswire.org and
> eBible.org, but there is currently no official pumpkin holder to
> maintain it.
>
> USX is fully automatically convertable to and from USFM with no loss
> or human intervention needed. This is not true of pure OSIS for
> technical and philosophical reasons. This is probably the biggest
> reason that OSIS was never supported natively in Paratext, and most
> likely never will be.
>
> USX is the native format of the Every Tribe Every Nation Digital Bible
> Library, which is the highest-quality and best-supported repository of
> Bible translations in the world.
>
> USX and/or USFM are supported by all of the best Bible translation
> software, including open source options. OSIS has no Bible translation
> software support.
>
> USX and/or USFM are supported by numerous Bible publishing options,
> both digitally and for print. OSIS has no significant Bible publishing
> support outside of Crosswire.
>
> USX has organizational support from the most influential Bible
> translation agencies.
>
> Using USX and/or USFM makes versification mapping easier, because
> someone else has already done the work.
>
> There are currently at least 2 reasonable ways to convert from USFM or
> USX to OSIS with minimal losses in formatting. Neither one is perfect,
> but maybe good enough. There is a lot of code assuming OSIS inputs to
> Sword modules, and that could remain, along with GBF and TEI, but I
> can see better quality coming from direct USX support.
>
> If OSIS is good enough as is, fine. But if it isn't, then I suggest
> that it be phased out rather than modified.
>
>
> On 2/18/24 09:42, Michael H wrote:
>> Re: Lack of momentum for OSIS.
>>
>> OSIS as described on wikipedia is owned by a committee including
>> United Bible Societies, SIL International, and the Society of
>> Biblical Literature.
>>
>> However, this team got together and created the version that is
>> available, then almost completely ignored it, and went back to the
>> SFM tagging system and then produced USFM, when turned into several
>> more closely related XML languages, but has become USX. There was in
>> the UBS/SIL Paratext translation program the ability to produce OSIS
>> output until version 8, but since about 2016, there is no use or
>> mention of OSIS in Paratext.
>>
>> A history and analysis of why this is published in Balisage 2021
>> conference:
>>
>> https://www.balisage.net/Proceedings/vol26/html/Robie01/BalisageVol26-Robie01.html
>>
>> Even in 2024, the tagging language USFM remains the "primary" tool to
>> encode biblical works at almost all the organizations that produced
>> OSIS. There is no momentum for that committee to ever meet again. But
>> the spec has holes.
>>
>> https://gitlab.com/cmahte/osis-users-manual-2.1
>>
>> I started working on updating OSIS, and in the process received a
>> reply from someone at ABS or UBS that although the OSIS spec is
>> copyrighted and does not contain specific verbiage about reuse, I
>> could and should consider it licensed under creative commons BY-SA.
>> (At the time, I wasn't seeking to update OSIS, but freely copy from
>> it in creating a successor or fork.)
>>
>> This means that OSIS is both abandoned and available for adoption by
>> a successor body. I've also since moved on from ever producing
>> proposed changes to it or a fork myself. IF I ever got far enough
>> along to need a formal spec, it would be extensions USFM or to
>> OpenDocument or more directly synonymous with that XML. If you're
>> interested, I'll dig up the contact information, and pass it along.
>> But I do have a copy re-edited into USFM (or more specifically a
>> draft version of PSFM... which means the way tables are built in my
>> text are unusual.) If there is an effort to update. I can transform
>> my work into LibreOffice Writer format.
>>
>> I suggest it is time to consider an OSIS 3, or at least an OSIS 2.2
>> spec that is owned by a successor organization instead of
>> organizations that effectively abandoned it. That's the missing link
>> which would provide a mechanism to actually make changes to the
>> standard. People (including me) keep doing this search and landing
>> at Crosswire Bible society as the best option for a new owner. But
>> maybe who OWNS can be one of the topics considered by a committee.
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 9:47 AM Arnaud Vié <unas.zole+avie at gmail.com
>> <mailto:unas.zole%2Bavie at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Having dived into the whole crosswire ecosystem recently, I'm at
>> the same time impressed at the quality of the tools provided (in
>> particular the OSIS standard and the JSword lib, as I've been
>> working in Java), and worried by what I perceive as a lack of
>> dynamism around it's development and difficulty to contribute.
>>
>> By "lack of dynamism" I of course don't mean to criticise the
>> time anyone spends (as we contribute to a free ecosystem, we all
>> have lives keeping us busy elsewhere), but rather to highlight
>> how rough it is for external enthusiastic people to join.
>> For example, I'd like to contribute evolutions to the OSIS
>> standard around versification systems, but I have no idea where
>> to make such proposals, as there is only a mailing list dead
>> since 2015 <http://crosswire.org/pipermail/osis-core/>, a few
>> wiki pages <https://wiki.crosswire.org/Category:OSIS> and a few
>> downloadable documents <https://crosswire.org/osis/> which are
>> supposedly the latest version.
>>
>> I think a lot of that could be improved by making better use of
>> the crosswire github project <https://github.com/crosswire>,
>> which is nowadays the first contact most young developers will
>> have with these crosswire projects.
>>
>> I'd like to propose a few changes, get your opinions, and
>> volunteer to execute them if everyone agrees.
>>
>> * *Revive the jsword github repository*.
>> That includes
>> o Backporting the relevant changes from the andbible fork
>> <https://github.com/AndBible/jsword/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed>
>> (excluding android-specific stuff - which I already
>> mostly removed in my last PR there).
>> o Setting up a release process to publish the jar on a
>> maven repository.
>> o Setting up a clear branching model and writing clear
>> contribution guidelines.
>> o Having a team of several people familiar with Java
>> development to review PRs or answer questions in the
>> issue tracker. I obviously volunteer, but more people is
>> always the best.
>>
>> * *Create a new Git repository for the OSIS specification*.
>> Must contain :
>> o In Git, the OSIS XSD schema, and the functional
>> specification (basically, the contents of the current
>> manual) in markdown or asciidoc format.
>> So that contributions to the standard may be opened as
>> pull requests, reviewed, potentially stored as separate
>> branches, etc.
>> o A wiki tab where all relevant OSIS-related resources from
>> the crosswire wiki should be copied.
>>
>> * Ideally, I'd also suggest *moving the C++ sword code to github*.
>> Having it only on an old SVN repo
>> <https://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/>, not browsable or
>> searchable online, really harms its visibility. I used a
>> little bit of SVN while in engineering school 12 years ago,
>> but I doubt that most young devs nowadays even know about it.
>>
>> But for this last C++ part, I suspect it has bigger impact on
>> current developers, since Troy is still actively developing it
>> and using the Jira bugtracker for this part - so there is no
>> urgent need to change.
>> I'm really more worried about the jsword repo (it breaks my heart
>> to see it dead since 2019) and having a visible and versioned
>> location for the OSIS standard.
>>
>> Please let me know your thoughts !
>> And whoever is currently admin of the github project, would you
>> be willing to grant me some permissions on the jsword repo and a
>> new "osis-spec" repo to start setting up all of this ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Arnaud Vié
>>
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