[sword-devel] Languages without a space between words

Tue Apr 18 03:09:53 EDT 2023

Hi David,

On April 17, 2023 11:11:10 PM MST, David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>Thanks Troy
>
>One detail you omitted is that search ignores punctuation and is case-insensitive for bicameral scripts.

Well, "ignore case" is an option you can pass to the search, but it is not the default. You might find interesting the mostly current comment in our examples/cmdline/search.cpp 

https://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/examples/cmdline/search.cpp

>
>eg. An exact phrase search of the KJV for “verily verily” will find “Verily, verily, …”

I don't think this is correct, even with REG_ICASE. It would be correct for a multi word search, but not a phrase search.

Again, to be clear, we are speaking about the internal brute force search in the engine, not about any of our external search plugins like clucene.

>
>Referring to earlier discussion, would SWORD search count the ZWNJ as a space?

Nope, and again to be clear, space is only considered for special processing during the "needles" division, which is only performed during a multi word search-type search; a space is treated as any other character during the actual search.

Hope this clears my last message up a bit.

Blessings,

Troy

>
>David
>
>Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>
>On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 01:08, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:
>
>> Great suggestions all. One thing to interject: SWORD raw search simply looks for a needles in a haystack-- it doesn't break words at all in the haystack. Multi-word search-type will break the needles up by a space, e.g., if you search for "God love world" and specify multi-word then you effectively get a search for a 3 needles. "phrase" search-type takes the search term as one needle. Whether or not that would be more or less useful here, I'll let the language-informed determine.
>>
>> On 4/17/23 11:24, Greg Hellings wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that looks like the type of thing. Although that is for Lucene (Java). I don't know the status of CLucene's implementation of that nor of Xapian's. But that would be the proper place for such processing to occur. If those libraries do not have one, interested parties could submit one. They could probably develop it inside of the SWORD library to be sure it's doing what they want it to do (I believe those filters are designed to be pluggable by the calling application) before submitting it to those projects for inclusion.
>>>
>>> --Greg
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 1:12 PM David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Greg.
>>>>
>>>> I just came across this
>>>>
>>>> https://lucene.apache.org/core/3_2_0/api/contrib-analyzers/org/apache/lucene/analysis/th/ThaiWordFilter.html
>>>>
>>>> Is that the kind of thing you were thinking of?
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 17:51, Greg Hellings <[greg.hellings at gmail.com](mailto:On+Mon,+Apr+17,+2023+at+17:51,+Greg+Hellings+%3C%3Ca+href=)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't believe you're going to get that sort of feature directly in the engine's simple search.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, if you're using a build of the library that utilizes CLucene or Xapian, then that should be the function of those libraries. They are supposed to be able to handle all of that type of functionality if the language has a corresponding contribution to that library. It might be better to check in with them.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 11:46 AM David Haslam <dfhdfh at protonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Unlike Hebrew and Arabic, etc, none of the names of the Thai Unicode characters contain the word FINAL. Likewise for Myanmar letters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A possible way forward might be to run one of the several Word Segmentation programs on the text of the ThaiKJV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Examples: KuCut, DeepCut, AttaCut
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This should insert a Unicode zero width non-joiner (ZWNJ) as a word separator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NB. The module would have to be updated using the segmented source text.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visually, the resulting text would display the same as the original, but the module would be amenable to indexing for word searches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A difficulty that might then arise is how the front-end user might enter the search query for an exact phrase search type (containing more than one word). Other search types (all words, any word) might be OK as is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aside: The KuCut method developed in 2004 was originally trained using the text of the ThaKJV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 17:16, Peter Von Kaehne <[refdoc at gmx.net](mailto:On+Mon,+Apr+17,+2023+at+17:16,+Peter+Von+Kaehne+%3C%3Ca+href=)> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does Thai Burmese etc etc use end forms for letters? if so, are these encoded as such?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Montag, 17. April 2023 um 16:47 Uhr
>>>>>>> Von: "David Haslam" <dfhdfh at protonmail.com>
>>>>>>> An: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>>>>>> Betreff: [sword-devel] Languages without a space between words
>>>>>>> How (if at all) does the SWORD API generate a search index for a module that is for a language without a space between words?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please consider how best to generate a useful search index for modules that are
>>>>>>> for Bible translations in languages that have no spaces between words.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Example: CrossWire module ThaiKJV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Writing_systems_without_word_boundaries
>>>>>>> Has this ever been considered before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
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